with filters in, quick cycle on off, filters out works norm, solutions?

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by tnjcreat, Jul 6, 2008.

  1. tnjcreat

    tnjcreat New Member

    Messages:
    3
    finally figgured out the prob, between the check valve as well as the filters in the dual whole house filters, they were causing choke points, pressure builds up to cut off before the filters and shuts off the pump, water filters through filters dropping pressure to cut in and turning pump back on, hence the short cycling, took out both filters, still did it, took out check valve and worked as normal, check valve was 1" inch check valve same as the lines, the filters reduce to 3/4 in and out, using yarn sediment filter first then charcoal.

    needing solutions as to placement of whatever parts without having to regut all pipes, currently there is no check valve, it is a deep well submersable pump, 2 wire, water comes from the pump to the switch, to the gauge, to the dual filters, then t's off to the tank and the softner/house. was suggested to move the filters to after the softener, but was wanting to keep debris etc. out of the tank/softner. i was thinking of moving the pump switch to after the dual filters before tank/softner/house. just don't want to hurt the pump by having it pushing too much pressure to the filters if the switch is after the filters.

    any suggestions? don't want to have to tear apart and rebuild several times to solve this issue.
  2. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

    I have pump, switch, tank, filters, check valve (optional) and softener. I have always heard pump, switch and tank should always be first.

    Yes, filters first.

    There should never be anything between the pump and the switch.
  3. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    I would put the pressure switch on the tank after the filters for reasons described below. There are others on this board who disagree but I do it regularly and it works if you do it properly.

    The pressure switch must measure tank pressure. Anything else will cause the cycling you describe.

    You shouldn't need the check valve but it is ok if it is before the tank and any points where water is withdrawn for use.

    Now to the question of filter location.

    The filter before the tank does the following for you:
    1. It uses the pressure capability of the pump at low flow to supply the pressure loss through the filters so you will have steadier tank pressure.
    2. Variations in pressure loss through the filter don't affect pressure when you are using water.
    3. Flow through the filter from the pump is usually more constant than household demands.

    A disadvantage is that any outside water usage will be filtered. An advantage of filters after the tank is that you will notice the pressure loss and will change the filters when they are plugged. However, you will get shorter filter life because you will not be able to use the full available life of the filters. The filters can be used up to 25-30 psi pressure loss in each stage but you can't stand that much loss from your pressure tank.

    The filter before the pressure switch requires that you so some things to make it safe.
    1. You must have a relief valve on the inlet side of the filter that will discharge the full flow of the pump at the safe/rated pressure of the filter housings. That relief valve setting must not exceed the pressure rating of the tank unless you also have a relief valve protecting the tank. The discharge of the relief valve must be piped to a place where the water won't cause a problem.

    2. You can't have a regulator or Cycle Stop Valve after the filters because that would cause the pressure on the filters to be equal to the full pressure capability of the pump. If you use a regulator or CSV it must be before the filters and I would set it at the highest pressure you want the filters to operate at; just a little below the setting of the relief valve.

    3. You should have a pressure gauge at the inlet of each filter, and you should check them regularly when the pump is running.

    You should have enough yarn filters so that the flow through each 10" unit doesn't exceed about 2.5 GPM. If you have a 10 GPM pump you should have two double-length (20") cartridges piped in parallel. You will save on replacement cartridges if you have more filters.
  4. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    The right way with the least expense is pump, tank with switch, gauge, PR valve and then the softener etc. and then the filters if you absolutely need them; the tank and softener don't, unless the softener is a water powered Kinetico.
  5. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Get rid of those so called Whole house filters. And they don't belong in front of the Pressure Switch. If you really need those things, your water is no good, and they should be on each Faucet not the whole house.

    bob...
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