Wiring submersible pump

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AJSears

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Question: I replaced a 2 wire submersible pump with a 2 wire plus ground pump. We just wrapped and taped up the ground wire. I worked for 3 weeks, now it quit again. Do you think it was because of the ground wire or something else? Should we have done the ground different?

Background: Three weeks ago our water quit. Written on the pressure tank is a log of repairs over the last 30 years. The submersible pump has been replaced every 7-10 years and it had been 9 years sense it was last replaced. I called the well repair man who took 2 days to call me back, then told me it would be another 5 days before he could come out to look at it. I grow vegetables and sell at farmers market. My garden (and business) could not survive 5+ more days so I looked up the model number of the last replacement pump (written on the pressure tank) and using those specifications bought a new 3/4 h.p pump. After pulling the pump (185 ft.) we saw that it was a 2 wire pump and not a "2 wire plus ground" The hardware store is over an hour drive so we just used what we had and just shrink wrapped and taped up the ground wire. It worked up until last night, but now once again we have no water.
 

Reach4

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Question: I replaced a 2 wire submersible pump with a 2 wire plus ground pump. We just wrapped and taped up the ground wire. I worked for 3 weeks, now it quit again. Do you think it was because of the ground wire or something else? Should we have done the ground different?
Something else. No.
Background: Three weeks ago our water quit. Written on the pressure tank is a log of repairs over the last 30 years. The submersible pump has been replaced every 7-10 years and it had been 9 years sense it was last replaced.

Had the pump failed each time?

What is your usage pattern? Irrigation run for long periods? How often did the pump start and stop? How large is the pressure tank?

What was the make and model of the pump that lasted 9 years, and what about the new pump?

I am not a pro.
 
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Valveman

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No problem leaving the ground wire off and not using it. Whatever caused the last pump to fail is probably the same thing that is causing the problem now. You may be pumping sand, or the water level is lower than usual and you pumped the well dry. Or your bladder tank could be bad and the waterlogged tank is the reason for both pump failures. It could also be just a bad pump. They don't make them like the use to. The pump from 9 years ago was probably better quality and assembled by someone who cared about and took pride in their job. Quality equipment and quality workmanship is not the norm anymore. Try another pump. Maybe you will get one that was made on a Wednesday instead of a Monday. :)
 

AJSears

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Thank you so much! I looked up "waterlogged bladder tank" to see how one tests it. Grabbed a hair bush and started tapping it to see if I could tell how full it was/is. The bottom pipe blew off and water started filling the basement. Okay... I figured after the tank is drained in would stop. a few minutes later I re-thought my hypothesis and shut off the breaker to the well and the water stopped immanently. Just to double check, I filliped it back on and water started rushing out again. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction!!! Got the water cleaned up and now looking at videos on how to install a new bladder tank. So glad we don't have to pull that pump back up! Although this time we put a recovery rope on the pump to make it easier... we are getting old and were sore for days!

The greenhouse is watered with drip irrigation, so water demand is relatively low. Like running a garden hose for 20 minutes 4 times a day. Much less water then we used for years watering cattle (that we no longer have) and raising 6 kids. Its just husband and I now.

Again... THANK YOU for the quick reply!

Angie
 

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A CSV works great for drip systems. Keeps the pump from cycling on and off. Which is what wears out bladders in tanks as well as the pump and everything else. And you would not have needed as large a tank. But it will work fine with the large tank.
 

Wondering

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Did you check the air pressure in your tank to make sure it was right? Also, what size is your tank?
 

AJSears

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Replaced it with a 44 gallon. It had a 62, but there were none that large available locally with out special ordering. We added air to the tank 3 pounds under what the high number it said on the switch. (we added 10 pounds) Then when we turned on the breaker, I watched it. I was a little worried at first, but then realized it was filling toilets when first turned on. Then It filled / pressure went up and turned off. The tank dose not seem as full as I would think it should be. I'll go down this afternoon when the irrigation turns on and watch it cycle.

We plan on putting up a second green house (same size as existing one 32 X 108) and an underground holding tank this fall to catch rain water off the house and barns to water the green houses. Then add a float the supplement the rain water with the well as/if needed. That should help.
 

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Replaced it with a 44 gallon. It had a 62, but there were none that large available locally with out special ordering. We added air to the tank 3 pounds under what the high number it said on the switch. (we added 10 pounds)

You should put the precharge air pressure (while the water pressure is zero) to 2 PSI lower than the LOW number on the pressure switch. That way the pressure tank can continue to supply water between the time that the pressure switch turns on and the pump is delivering new water.

If you set the precharge as you describe, very little of the tank's capacity is being used, and you would expect to be experiencing short cycling. I expect you are also experience a momentary blip down in pressure before the pump responds to the pressure switch turning the pump on. Your pump should run for a minute or more each time it turns on with a properly sized tank. If the tank is undersized, that might be 45 seconds -- not terrible.
 
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AJSears

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The tank dose not seem as full as I would think it should be.


Thank you, I shut the well off, turned on the sink on until there was no more water coming out, let air out of the tank 3 pounds under the LOW number. Then turned the power back on to the well. It ran 40 sec. then shut off. And now the bladder tank sounds 3/4 full. Now things seem correct.
 

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40 seconds of run time is not correct. Running at full amperage a pump needs to run at least 1 minute, 2 minutes is better, and running continuous while using water is best. With a green house and all the watering that goes with it, you need the 2 minute run time at least. That means you would need 3 or those tanks installed. Or you can use a CSV with the one tank you have, and the pump will run continuously while you are using water, which is the best thing you can do for a pump.
 

Texas Wellman

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You can supercharge a std. galv. tank with an air compressor ( or use an air-maker that sets the air/water level at 1/2 the height). Thus, instead of your 120-gallon tank having a 12-gallon drawdown you've got a ~30 gallon drawdown. The catch is you have to keep adding air 2-3 times per year. All my wells have std. 82 gallon tanks and I add air 3 times per year and I never even have to change a pressure switch for ~15 years.

How about a CSV set to 2 PSI below the cut-on pressure. You would get continuous running during irrigation and 8 1.1-gallon flushes between runs when not irrigating.



How can a standard tank be better than a diaphram tank in this regard, unless it is much bigger than the diaphragm tank?
 

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Reach4

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You can supercharge a std. galv. tank with an air compressor ( or use an air-maker that sets the air/water level at 1/2 the height). Thus, instead of your 120-gallon tank having a 12-gallon drawdown you've got a ~30 gallon drawdown. The catch is you have to keep adding air 2-3 times per year. All my wells have std. 82 gallon tanks and I add air 3 times per year and I never even have to change a pressure switch for ~15 years.
I am getting the picture that those makers of bladder/diaphragm tanks that say their 42 gallon pre-charged tanks are the equivalent of a 120 gallon galvanized tank are not being honest. Are they presuming that the tank starts at atmosphere and zero gallons of water, and does not have any added air to get their numbers? Marketers! I was under the impression that the galvanized tanks always had something to add air and usually had an air release to keep too much air from being kept. When I asked why the big "equivalent" numbers come from, I was told that was to avoid the potential air blast.

I am surprised that manually adding air would only have to be done 2 or 3 times per year.

I have thought that somebody could put a float valve at the bottom of the tank that would shut off the exit path if the water got low -- before air could blow through the pipes.
 
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