Wiring a GFCI

Discussion in 'Electrical Forum discussion & Blog' started by maurice53, May 27, 2011.

  1. maurice53

    maurice53 New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    I have 2 outlets in a laundry on the same dedicated circuit that are within 5' of the utility sink. 12/2 loops from the first to the second. Do I need each to be a GFCI or can I connect the second to the load terminal of the first? I am thinking that they both need to be GFCI because...and I may be wrong on this... if the second was not a GFCI and connected to the load of the first- if it came into contact with water it would not trip the first GFCI.
  2. SacCity

    SacCity In the Trades

    Messages:
    189
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Yes, you can use 1 GFIC for both plugs, the requirment is that both plugs be protected. Attaching the second plug to the load terminal is the way to do it....

    THat being said, I gernerally put in a GFIC on each plug. The reason being that if there is only one GFIC when it trips the entire circuit goes dead, at which point I get a call and have to drive across town to push a reset button. Whereas if there is a GFIC in each plug the instalation cost is significantly higher, but when one trips the client or tenant will try and press the reset button themselves before calling me. And if it is only one plug that has failed it is not an emergency and I don't have drop everything and drive across town to press the reset botton....

    My last recall working for the large plumbing company was where I had cabled the kitchen line. A few days latter I get called back out on a costomer complaint because now the Garbage Disposal (GB) does not work. Garbage disposal was on the same circuit as the counter plug which had tripped, $20 in gas out of my pocket, with no compensation....
    Michael
  3. Jim Port

    Jim Port Electrical Contractor

    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    Maryland
    The GD is prohibited from being on the 20 amp small appliance branch circuits.

    Did the company refund the money for the non-compliant install?
  4. Speedy Petey

    Speedy Petey Licensed Electrical Contractor

    Messages:
    996
    Location:
    NY State, USA
    This is why you are a plumber and not an electrician, and should stick to what you know...plumbing. ;)


    A) What does using the load terminals have to do with this scenario AT ALL??? Did you not know that the disp was on that circuit? Did the customer not know?
    Using GFI's at every location is wasteful, overkill and amateurish.

    B) The disposal should NOT have been on a counter or general kitchen receptacle circuit AT ALL. This is basic kitchen electric 101.
  5. Speedy Petey

    Speedy Petey Licensed Electrical Contractor

    Messages:
    996
    Location:
    NY State, USA
    Yes, you are.


    This is the specific reason for the "LOAD" terminals.
  6. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,988
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    PFFT!

    In this case the net difference is $10. Small price to pay to avoid confusion down the road. Heck, spare no expense... put in a $50 GFI breaker in the panel and elevate to rank amateur.

    That said, I have regular outlets daisy-chained off "load" terminals of GFCI outlets and saved myself a few dollars. Now, I did the wiring so I know what GFCI protects what downstream outlets so no gasoline will be wasted. I pity the "challenged" homeowner that will eventually buy this place when they trip a GFCI and have to call out an electrician to push a button. I'm guessing daisy-chained GFCI outlet resets are a good revenue stream for some contractors.
  7. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,534
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Are you saying the whole world is stupid and has no sense about GFCI devices at all?
  8. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,988
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    No, not the whole world... there are still a few people left that can think for themselves.

    I think you missed my (intentional) sarcastic tone. I should use more Smilies. :p

    I work in IT and so often have to suffer stupid people. I have to wonder how they manage to drive their car to work if they cannot recognize a poorly crafted phishing scam.
  9. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    In case this did not become clear in the discussion:

    The LOAD terminials of a GFI receptacle ARE GFI protected, and if a fault occurs in that load circuit, it DOES trip the whole GFI.
  10. maurice53

    maurice53 New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Thanks jimbo and everyone. It is clear as day now... Is there ever a valid reason to install individual GFI's along the same circuit?
  11. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,015
    Location:
    New England
    Not really...it just ends up costing more. They are easier to isolate where the problem is, though. Keep in mind (although few people do it), you should check the things regularly via the test button to verify they still work. This is one reason a GFCI CB may not be the best solution as it's out of sight, out of mind, but it would provide the same level of protection.
  12. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,641
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; Is there ever a valid reason to install individual GFI's along the same circuit?

    IF the outlets are in different rooms from the GFCI, finding the tripped on, if you do not know the floor plan, can be challenging. I one had one where the outlet in the garage was protected by a GFCI under a dressing bench in the bathroom. The homeowners had NEVER known it was there, much less seen it or used it.
  13. SacCity

    SacCity In the Trades

    Messages:
    189
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Good debate, my point is that I was able to pass on the material cost, and it seemed as if most of the tenants and property managers were not compitent to reset a GFIC or a breaker.

    I had a property manager call me out to replace a breaker because she could not reset it. THe breaker was tripped and she tried to push it to the on position and it would not stay on....
    A short lession on how to reset a breaker,

    Yes I know that a Garbage disposal should not be on a appliance circuit. However most of the homes that I work on are older. So you never know what is hidden in the walls. Who has done what in the past...

    A crappy duplex I looked at last year, the water heater had failed, owner wanted me to instal a new, I looked at the corrosion on a three year old water heater and told him that he had an electrical problem. He complained that it was not possible because he had just had the unit rewired a few years ago.... He ended up having to replace all the wiring in the unit...

    Too many hacks, twisting wires together and covering it with drywall.
    I walk away from those projects now. Not worth my risk.
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