Wire size, 3ph Delta, 120/240

Discussion in 'Electrical Forum discussion & Blog' started by Homeownerinburb, Jul 10, 2012.

  1. Homeownerinburb

    Homeownerinburb New Member

    Messages:
    525
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    JW,

    Went out on a trouble shooting call today. Glad it came. The laborers on the home remodel that I have stumbled across have dug down five feet so far and not yet found the utility's conduit. If we go much further, I am going to tell the general that he needs to pull a permit to dig a deep hole and shore the wretched thing up.

    Wadda ya know? Power out on most of one circuit of four in a one bedroom apartment.

    Looked around for a fair bit.

    And score a point for you: the line went into a box, was stripped of its insulation and wrapped around a screw, and then nutted off to the wire that went off to the parts of the circuit that were not working.

    The line had broken on the outgoing side of the screw. The wire failed because the previous guy had damaged the copper and then possibly twisted it around a lot to get it into the box. The light that the switch served was still working, as the line was intact to the switch.

    Pulled the line off the screw, cut off the exposed copper, bared that and the other, added a third to the screw on the switch, and all was well.

    I had already pulled out a pair of switches thinking the problem was there (the switch not working a light was directly down stream of the other that I described.)

    All four of the screws were loose. I am not a burly guy. I do not have a crushing grip. I twist stuff together as hard as I can. It seems to stay together. What is the problem?

    Your tolerance of back stabs leaves me confused.

    I still insist that the receptacle's female blades in back stabs are flimsy compared to the preferred stuff And I insist that a receptacle that has a yolk strap that passes all the way across the back of the unit is better than one that passes thru the middle of the body. This second arrangement does a very poor job of supporting the the female brass components when the plug gets shoved in there.

    Experience has taught me to trust the unit that is built solidly. I don't object to the back stabs only because they rely on a dodgy contact with the wire (that will weaken in any over amperaging) but because all that I have seen look flimsy in every way.
  2. Homeownerinburb

    Homeownerinburb New Member

    Messages:
    525
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    JW,

    Went out on a trouble shooting call today. Glad it came. The laborers on the home remodel that I have stumbled across have dug down five feet so far and not yet found the utility's conduit. If we go much further, I am going to tell the general that he needs to pull a permit to dig a deep hole and shore the wretched thing up.

    Wadda ya know? Power out on most of one circuit of four in a one bedroom apartment.

    Looked around for a fair bit.

    And score a point for you: the line went into a box, was stripped of its insulation and wrapped around a screw, and then nutted off to the wire that went off to the parts of the circuit that were not working.

    The line had broken on the outgoing side of the screw. The wire failed because the previous guy had damaged the copper and then possibly twisted it around a lot to get it into the box. The light that the switch served was still working, as the line was intact to the switch.

    Pulled the line off the screw, cut off the exposed copper, bared that and the other, added a third to the screw on the switch, and all was well.

    I had already pulled out a pair of switches thinking the problem was there (the switch not working a light was directly down stream of the other that I described.)

    All four of the screws were loose. I am not a burly guy. I do not have a crushing grip. I twist stuff together as hard as I can. It seems to stay together. What is the problem?

    Your tolerance of back stabs leaves me confused.

    I still insist that the receptacle's female blades in back stabs are flimsy compared to the preferred stuff And I insist that a receptacle that has a yolk strap that passes all the way across the back of the unit is better than one that passes thru the middle of the body. This second arrangement does a very poor job of supporting the the female brass components when the plug gets shoved in there.

    Experience has taught me to trust the unit that is built solidly. I don't object to the back stabs only because they rely on a dodgy contact with the wire (that will weaken in any over amperaging) but because all that I have seen look flimsy in every way.
  3. Homeownerinburb

    Homeownerinburb New Member

    Messages:
    525
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    I find that backstabs are inferior in every way, including this one.

    They are cheap and flimsy in every way. Never seen one that was not.
  4. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,531
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Why did I read both of the post above? They are the same post. I know it does me like that from time to time.
  5. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,531
    Location:
    North Carolina
    I respect you right to believe this and will never try to change your mind. I think that experience will be the best teacher for this.

    There is one thing that I do know for sure and certain, if there was so many problems with using stab-loc devices then the NRTLs through America would have outlawed them long ago.

    I have in the past and will continue to use stab-loc devices as I know that when done correctly they are Just As Good as any other method. I also know that even screws will not save a device that is overloaded. There is no method that can be used that will prevent overloading of a device.

    I can buy a cheap new car or I can buy the most expensive car on the market but either will fail should I decide to lock her in low gear and floor the gas for long enough period. The motor in either will give up.
    The same is true with electrical devices. Installing the top of the line devices and using screws will not prevent the user from overloading the device to the point that the device fails.
  6. Homeownerinburb

    Homeownerinburb New Member

    Messages:
    525
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    Dunno. Web site fought with me.
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