Wierd drains and bathroom reno

Discussion in 'Remodel Forum & Blog' started by julian_mason, Jan 8, 2007.

  1. julian_mason

    julian_mason New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Hi all,
    trying to get some points of view for some work i have planned. i'm doinga reno of two bathrooms, and have ripped ut a closet to make more space. I can leave all the drains in place, but need to add a drain for the new soaker tub. The system is a bit odd because all the drains go to a single vertical stack (4" i think) copper.
    For water, i plan to split off the sink and have attachments for peks (id i spell that right) put on so i can do the rest of the work myself with crimping.
    The drain is a bit trickier. This is because i am dealing with the upper floor of a townhouse with 1-2 inch concrete floor, followed by thin foam liner,and then more concrete. I could chip away some of the surface ara maybe, but don't want to rick punchig through. I had thought to raise tub a few inches to allow for drain and slope to main drain- it was suggested this might not be ok, but no reason was given, and i can't imagine why the tub being at a slightly higher elevation would cause any plumbing conflicts, put please correct me if i'm wrong.
    Now...that pesky copper vertical drain. They have those rubberized line clamps that (as i was told) are designed to allow a connection from a copper to a abs pipe.my intent was to cut away a section of this copper pipe (only 1 sink drain above it, so no risk of unexpected surprises!!!) as close to the floor as possible, to allow the addition of an abs t juntion that will take the drain water from the tub install. it would be attached with these rubberized sleeves with the mechanical screw tightens. I was lead to understand this is acceptable, and the it should be able to handle the load of the single sink drain above it with no problem. Thoughts?
    My final thought. This assembly i need to create to add the t- juntion for the drain is going to take up some vertical height, due to the nature of these screw clamp. can i glue the clamp on one side directly to the pvc t junction to save two or three inches, or am i looking for trouble? i'll try to draft a quick photo of what i'm envisioning, and post it.
    Any opinions are appreciated..especially if you explain the "why" of your opinion. i like to understand "why" something will, won't, or may work so i can continue to try and solve the problem.
    thanks
  2. wow! R U confusing me!

    Two bathrooms to redo, wow! Someone else just posted a couple days ago about the same thing! And in both cases, it is hard to figure out how much skill /knowledge / time you have. It's a big project. Hundreds of hours for the most experienced professional, and an order of magnitude more for a DIY.

    Are you in a condo building? Who is "leading you to believe" various things?

    Post a drawing of the floor plan.

    david
  3. julian_mason

    julian_mason New Member

    Messages:
    6
    A sketch

    Hi- hope its viewable..did my best, but only small files allowed

    Attached Files:

  4. julian_mason

    julian_mason New Member

    Messages:
    6
    A little of each

    Hi there,

    well, i know bathroom remodels are big work. i've got probaly just the right mix of time, DIY(ism), help from some pros and other DYI's, and experience to be dangerous.
    The bulk of the work has been done, since we came up with floor plans that involved no moving of toilet drains, ect. I've already got the walls down, and re-framing them is a easy thing once the soaker tub is in the room. My only real challenge at this point should be this drain, since it is a atypical assembly. Certinaly not hte way to do it in the perfect world with unlimited time, money, and resources...but wondering if it will work. Hope the diagram helps explain my thoughts on the drain. my goal is to keep the t- juntion as close to the floor as possibble, since this will allow me to not have to raise the tub as much. All input appreciated!!

    A childhood friend (Sam Greer) told me frequently that if i had brains i'd be dangerous! This might be an area where that applies?
  5. Randyj

    Randyj Master Plumber

    Messages:
    1,047
    Location:
    Alabama
    Definitely not to code. Good luck if you get it to work. I would think that you would be better to use a copper T then use a banded rubber coupling to hitch it up to the PVC. I'm thinking the much more expensive copper tee would put the PVC even closer to the floor.
  6. julian_mason

    julian_mason New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Copper T?

    OK...so if i use a copper t, i use plastic for the rest of it. Is the "banded rubber coupling" the thing i was talking about early that slides over teh outside of of the pipe and has a mechanical screw band clamp?
    what would code require for something like this. i'm at a disadvantage as the building is 20 years old, and clearly code has changed.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2007
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,843
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    drain

    1. There is no glue that would join the band to the tee, and anything you cobbled together would eventually leak.
    2. As soon as you said there was a sink on that vertical pipe, you changed the parameters. If it is a vent for a lower sink, connecting the tub to it would destroy its usage as a vent, and if the sink is above the tee, your tub will not have a vent. Either way, if the association requires all work to be to code, in order to prevent problems for the adjacent units, you have to either install a vent for your tub, or restore a vent for the affected sink.
    3. The reason raising the tub is a bad idea, is that doing so with a conventional tub creates a bathroom that is obviously remodeled by an amateur. A deck tub can be as high, or low, as you wish it to be, as long as you can enter it safely.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2007
  8. julian_mason

    julian_mason New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Plumbing map

    Ok, so since i am not as adept at explaining myself in words as i would like, i have included a sketch which shows the current install out of copper, and what i am hoping to do with the install if it is reasonable to consider it.
    Hope the images help clarify my idea and make very clear the flaws that may exist. Oh, i didn't put it on the diagram, but the distance from the tub drain to the main drain is 21". The main vertical drain (i just looked at a tape measure) would be 6", and the vanity drain currently coming is, as well as the secondary vent, are both either 2" or 3". The vent seems to also be the drain....guess they used to do it this way. Still ok, or code violations?
    guess while i'm at it, i should just replace the current t-junction for the vanity with a wye/combo too? and no glue connecting abs/copper--use the properr coupling.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 9, 2007
  9. closer but still far from what you want

    yes diagrams, they help a lot.

    Your tub is raised 6" or more.

    if you build a big platform in front of it, and spend real time money and skill at making it look good, then a tub raised 6" to 8" will look good. That is a rare thing.

    you need venting, more than you have shown. Post a diagram showing a whole lot more. Ideally, it shows all Vents, to the roof, and all drains, in the entire building, and every san-T as a san Tee, every Wye as a Wye, everything. Read other threads here to learn more if need be.

    your diagram is still missing so much that all input you get will be based on very incomplete information, so it helps neither party. Frustrates the help.

    david
  10. julian_mason

    julian_mason New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Sorry...

    Hey David,
    thnaks for that. SOrry to frustrate the help, and sadly do not believe i can get more info. The building is 20 years old, and i have checked at city hall (no plans on file), so can't see any way for me get the details that would apparently be needed without ripping out my and everyone else's walls.
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