Whistling Gas Meter

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Squeak

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After much investigation, I have finally tracked down this weird whistling sound I would hear sporadically, and only started after having my new tankless installed. I would only hear it when the washing machine was first started, and then heard it again yesterday when my wife took a bath.

Ends up it is my gas meter outside making this noise. Only happens when the GPM flow through the Rinnai heater is >4 GPM. This is telling me that the burner is modulating to use higher BTU, but is it normal to have this sound?

I was first fearful that my gas meter couldn't handle the flow, but it is rated at 275CFH, and this noise happens with no other gas appliance running at all, and the Rinnai running at what I would estimate is 50-60% of capacity.

Gas company is coming out tomorrow to look at it, but I am assuming they are going to push for a larger meter (which is not free to me). Could this just be as simple as deterioration of the meter or regulator (been in house for 14 years)?
 

Killer95Stang

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The gas company installed a huge meter when we had our swimming pool built a couple years ago. The pool heater that was installed is 400K BTU. We also have a tankless 200K water heater , stove and central heat. When we crank the pool heater on to warm the spa, the meter whistles pretty loud. We were told by the Gas Company technician that our new meter is sized appropriately and the whistling in our case is normal.

Take that for what it is worth.
 

Squeak

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Gas company came out and put a new gas meter on. Still makes the noise under higher usage. The guy thinks it is the csst lines making the noise and moving up to the meter. Offered to put a higher capacity meter on, but I would have to pay for it, and they are not sure it would fix the problem (and they don't have one to test, so I have no way of knowing without paying ~$700).

Said there was no leak, and no danger, so I am probably just going to leave it as is. Where the gas line comes in it is in a finished space, so no real way short of taking drywall down to see if it really is the line making the noise.
 

Squeak

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I have another thread going in the tankless forum, but I thought I would at least share for those who might be curious what the whistling sounds like:

 

Dj2

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Hey squeak,
I suspect that your pressure reducing valve is probably the component that makes this unbelievable noise. Call your gas company again and be a polite pest. It's their valve, their rep probably has a couple of them in his truck.
 

Squeak

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Funny...I specifically asked the tech when he was out here (young guy, maybe not as experienced) if it was the regulator doing that, and he said he had listened with his stethoscope like device and could hear it inside the meter itself, and there is nothing inside the regulator that would cause it.

You bring up an interesting point: he was claiming it is the csst lines making the noise and being best heard through the meter, but wouldn't I hear it loudest in the house then (which I don't -- it seems the point source is definitely from the meter).
 

Dj2

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Call the Gas Company again, they will probably send another tech, who will probably give you a different story...

Be persistent and ask to talk to a manager, if the second tech refuses to do anything or insists on a costly upgrade.

Good working meters and valves do make a hiss sound, and that is perfectly normal. However your sound is unusual. Gas comes into the pressure reducing valve at tremendous pressure. Maybe, just maybe, your valve is not keeping a constant pressure and the variances are causing the sound. Your meter, pipes, unions and valve also look rusty and old - maybe it's time for your Gas Company to replace them. As their customer who always pays his bills on time, they have to provide you with high quality exterior components. Their responsibility ends when the supply gas line enters the home.

Whenever I have an issue with my Gas Company, Electric Supplier or Water Company, I always get quick and prompt action. Why not? I'm a good customer.

Don't let a lazy tech shrug you off.
 

Dj2

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Just another note: The tech told you that he could hear the noise inside the meter - well the meter is pass the PRV, isn't it?
 

Squeak

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Just another note: The tech told you that he could hear the noise inside the meter - well the meter is pass the PRV, isn't it?

Yeah, but that doesn't really mean anything if the sound is originating inside the house and working its way up to the meter (which is on the house-side of the PRV). Am I thinking about that right?
 

hj

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CSST WILL whistle especially if it makes a sharp bend such as where it goes down a wall, (which is why they have minimum radius requirements), but high velocity will also cause it, (it can also occur with undersized corrugated flexible appliance connectors). Is that a 1/2" drop out of the meter? it is hard to tell without some reference point.
 

Squeak

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CSST WILL whistle especially if it makes a sharp bend such as where it goes down a wall, (which is why they have minimum radius requirements), but high velocity will also cause it, (it can also occur with undersized corrugated flexible appliance connectors).

High velocity regardless of pipe size, or because of high velocity with an undersized pipe? Put another way: is there a chance the same whistling could happen when the same velocity but instead with a larger 3/4" csst?
 

Squeak

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Is that a 1/2" drop out of the meter? it is hard to tell without some reference point.

No, I believe that is a 3/4" pipe off the backside of the meter going into the house, where it transitions to 1/2"csst for 50-60' feet to the manifold.
 

Squeak

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I will give my plumber credit: he is just as curious to track this down as well and working the problem. He came out and listened to it and thinks it is the meter being undersized. Says they have done quite a few installations like this with 2lb systems and never had this issue ever before.

While he can't say for sure, he doesn't understand if it was the csst that was undersized why the noise would be loudest at the meter (and not in the walls).

But, he is going to come back out in a couple of days with a 3/4" line that we are going to temporarily hook up and see if that resolves it. He also is going to work his contacts at the other local gas company that upgrades meters for free to see if he can borrow a higher-capacity one to test.
 

Squeak

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It is very hard to undersize a 2 psi system, but is that what you have?

No idea...that is what we are trying to narrow down! :):D

EDIT: I read this wrong. I didn't realize you were asking if I had a 2psi system -- I thought you were asking if I had an undersized system, which we of course don't know quite yet. Sorry!
 
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Squeak

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If I am reading this chart correctly from WardFlex (who makes my csst), I should have around 300k BTU getting to my manifold:


http://1nud9a2j8wrb2t7d2f2s9k98.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/WFmaxUpdate2.pdf
image.png
 

hj

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There is an immense difference between a 2 psi system and a 6" w.c. one, and your utility company can answer that question in a minute. If you have the correct chart, that would mean you have a 200' 3/4" line or 50' of 1/2".
 

Squeak

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There is an immense difference between a 2 psi system and a 6" w.c. one, and your utility company can answer that question in a minute. If you have the correct chart, that would mean you have a 200' 3/4" line or 50' of 1/2".

Thanks for the insight, but I must be dense because I am not sure exactly what you are saying. EDIT: Sorry, I finally got it -- didn't realize I didn't mention it in this thread. YES! I have a 2psi system.

I know that I have 50-60' of 1/2" flex line running from the point the meter comes into the house to my manifold -- all on a 2psi system.

I also know that the utility company came out, swapped out the old meter for a new one (same capacity) and the sound did not stop. They say it could either be 1) the "pipes inside the house causing it", or 2) the meter itself is undersized -- but it would cost $700 to order a larger meter to even test.

Of those two theories, my plumber doesn't think it is the 1/2" line being too small (due to the capacity charts listed above), but is not sure. Hopefully we can try and test both and see if either are correct.
 

hj

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Blow through a corrugated appliance connector hard enough and it WILL "sing". Your CSST will do the same thing at higher velocities, and that is probably your problem. Even when 1/2" is "big enough" that does NOT mean it is the best size to use especially if you are near its maximum capacity. I would NEVER have run a 1/2" line from the meter to the manifold.
 

Squeak

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Thanks. Unfortunately, that 1/2" line was what the original plumber put in 15 years ago (and seems like it is pretty standard around here). The work to replace it will be tremendous, so have to weigh my options.

Thanks again.
 
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