Where to Purchase Toto Ultramax Toilet (CST853S)

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Princess Periwinkle, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. Princess Periwinkle

    Princess Periwinkle New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    North East, MD
    I finally found the toilet that I want but do not know where to purchase via the Internet or here in the Delaware/Maryland/Southeastern PA region. It is the Toto Ultramax toilet, ADA (universal height), round bowl and without a toilet seat.

    I'm replacing a builder's grade Toto toilet from 11 years ago.

    Does anyone have any idea as to where I can purchase this toilet as described?
  2. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,852
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Okay. Let's go through what you're actually looking for, because you have the model thing a little off.

    MS and the toilet number plus the seat number applies to one-pieces.
    SO...the Round Bowl (Original Version) Ultramax is MS853113, plus a letter suffix indicating the features of the toilet.
    "S" means the 1.6gpf GMax. "E" is the 1.28gpf Watersense.
    (114 is the elongated seat, 113 is the round seat).

    So, like MS853113S or MS853113E. That's a toilet you can find online and at your local distributor.

    [NOTE WELL: This particular toilet is still available out there with the old Power Gravity flush, and in that configuration is called the Ultimate. It is the model number without a suffix, e.g. "MS853113". Beware because the GMax or EMax flushes are just better. Since the Power Gravity was discontinued a while back, they now all come with suffixes after the model number. Don't let someone sell you an Ultimate as an Ultramax based on confusion over the model number including suffix.]

    Problem is the Round doesn't come in an ADA height. The Ultramax II comes in Universal Height standard, but doesn't come in Round. The Elongated Original Ultramax comes in an ADA Height: MS854114SL.

    So, if you really need Round (we recommend elongated unless you really, really need the space because otherwise a door would hit it or such), it doesn't come in ADA.

    If you can do with elongated, then you have a choice between the MS854114SL (ADA) and the Ultramax II, which comes standard with Sanagloss, 1.28gpf, double-cyclone and Universal Height at a price pretty close to the ADA Ultramax. That's model number MS604114CEFG.

    C=Double Cyclone, E=1.28gpf, F=Universal Height, G=Sanagloss. CEFG is the only way that model comes.

    As to where to buy locally, pull out the yellow pages, look up "Plumbing Supply" and call around. Sound knowledgeable and get a quote on the exact model number and color you want. GET NUMEROUS QUOTES, because the prices will vary wildly. You can look at Terry's prices in the red box above to see what a good plumber or plumbing supply might charge; you might be able to beat that price locally or you might not be able to achieve it locally. You also might try a plumber or two for an installed price if you're not going to do it yourself, and compare that to what you could get it for plus what someone would charge to put it in.

    Good luck and come back with any other questions.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2012
  3. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,349
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    One thing to be aware of if buying on-line. When toilets are shipped to the distributors, they are bulk packed in such a way that breakage is minimal and even if one is broken, the distributor will deal with that. However, when shipped individually, the packing is not always as well done. Also, the Fed EX and UPS handling often is not as carefully done as it could be, so breakage is fairly common. If this is the route you go, you should open the carton(s) and fully inspect everything for breakage before accepting the shipment. The seller will make good on replacing anything broken if this is done, but of course this will take some time and a bit of effort on your part. Buying locally may mean a higher price, but less hassle dealing with a broken tank or bowl. Just a side note, Terry Love does not ship toilets for the reasons I mentioned. But, buying on-line is always tempting, especially if you are in a state that collects sales tax on sales within the state but not on-line, and when they offer free shipping on top of that, it is truly hard not to roll the dice, but just be aware of the possible drawbacks.
  4. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,004
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I had two shipping instances come up for me recently. I had an East Coast manufacturer send me a toilet to try out; of the three pieces that consist of a toilet, the lid was broken. When I called them, he acknowledged that it was happening a lot.

    Then I had a pallet of toilets that was to be delivered from a shipping company, Midwest manufacturer. They called on Friday, and we set up Monday for delivery. I waited all day Monday for the shipment, moving around my appointments. It was scheduled for the morning. By six it had not arrived. So now it's Tuesday, and I move Tuesday's appointments back. Finally at 3:00 on Tuesday I call, for the third time that day, and it wasn't even on the truck. I decide to drive over with a cube van and pick the order. There was enough weight on the pallet that they didn't have a truck driver that could have unloaded it. Two days waiting for a delivery! And then I had to go pick it up anyway. Do you want to know how much money I lost waiting around for that?

    So there are a few reasons to buy local. It also helps your neighbors.
    A rich person in Germany was once asked about taxes. He said he had never liked the idea of being a rich person in a poor country. Well, I will get a taste of that this Winter when I travel to India.
  5. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    Warren, MI
    I know this is about a Toto toilet but seems to be problems about ordering so I'll but in my $0.02.

    Ordered a AS Cadet 3 1.6gpf 10" rough in online from HD because it isn't stocked in the stores. Received the tank one day but no bowl, called but they are confused and sort-of suggest something about another order. Next day the bowl comes then I get an email that an order is being processed, so I call and get it cancelled. A few days later another bowl shows up so I call again and they said UPS will pick it up in 24-72 hrs, leave it on the porch. Two days later no UPS, so I call again and am told that the order for pickup is in process plus I'll receive a notice of pickup day.

    Several days later UPS shows up for the pickup and I was never notified.

    Okay now toilet installed, tank leaks, suggestions here help but it still leaks. I call again to try to get another tank. They want me to remove/return the whole toilet as it would be faster than just ordering a replacement tank. I opted to wait for the tank. A week later, I call to make sure the order is in. The order went it and rejected because of something about that I have 50% of the order and I have to return the whole toilet again. They start to offer a 10% discount on a second toilet. I lost it then and hung up on them. I later cooled down, called back trying to talk to a manager, etc. I didn't as the guy wanted to try to help.

    The person I hung up on failed to explain what they were trying to do. I order a second toilet at a 10% discount, swap the tank out, return it under the original order and pocket the difference plus they added an extra 10%.

    Here's comes the real kicker!! I get the UPS tracking number yesterday for one box at 65.4 lbs. The original came in two boxes, one at around 65 lbs or the bowl and the other at 29 lbs or the tank. Just how many mistakes can these people make??

    I called again to "try" to exlpain that this order appears to be of less weight and probably missing the tank. They did understand that even their own site shows a product weight of 88 lbs. It's possible that they managed to put both pieces in one box and enter the wrong weight but would that get by UPS scans, I doubt it.

    They supposedly emailed the warehouse and were going to forward the answer to me which should take about an hour. That was four hours ago now.

    What a nightmare from day one plus the problems on the install that I made.
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,006
    Location:
    New England
    It's safer to buy locally. That being said, when I bought my first Totos, there weren't any local distributors and I ordered them via the internet (that's no longer the case). Of the four I've bought, one was broken in transit and I never ever saw it...the shipper realized it was broken and they arranged for a new one to be shipped - all I noticed originally, was that it took longer to come than they said. I didn't really 'need' it immediately (slow remodel), so I didn't find out until later. Some places repackage them and they're quite robust, but porcelain is brittle AND heavy. It can only handle so much. WHen a dealer takes delivery, it is usually for a pallet or more of them, strapped together, not an individual one that can get bounced around on the truck. Unless you drive a fork truck through the palletized load, they're pretty safe, but a single one rarely gets its own pallet - it would just take up too much space on the truck.

    You may find a local supplier whose price will match the on-line seller, then it's a no brainer...buy local. Even if it is slightly more, it's still safer. If you show them the price, including shipping, they may drop theirs some and may match it, too.
  7. dt

    dt New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    DC
    Just registered and this may be a late response. I live in Northern Va (DC suburb) and bought four Totos. 3 Toto Drakes and 1 Toto Supreme. For the 3 Drakes, I went through a distributor in MD Atlantic Bath & Brass. They hand delivered all three. Couldnt be more satisfied with the service and most importantly the Totos. For the last one, AB&B didnt have the Supreme in stock so I ordered online from Atlanta location. Same packing as JerryR mentions above. Double box, expandable foam. Very difficult to remove but superior packing and no damage. Hope this helps.

    Thanks to this sites reviews and Terry Love since I had no clue what toilets to go with with. Replaced one Kohler SanRapahale (1.6gpf 2"; 10 years old) and three 25 year old American Standards. No more plugging problems for me.
  8. CindyJ

    CindyJ Member

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I'd love to know where you ended up with your purchases. I'm in southeastern PA and I'm looking to buy 3 Totos in the next couple of weeks. I was all set to price shop and buy online, but after reading through this thread I'm reconsidering. I'd love to get a recommendation for a local dealer that offers competitive pricing.
  9. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,349
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    I don't want to appear to be a wise guy, but the best way to get this information is for you to make either personal visits to plumbing shops in your area or to make phone calls. Participants in this forum are actually international and we can provide a lot of generic assistance to problems, but specific local information is going to be limited to just a few, if any, people that know about your location. Many shops can get Toto toilets, but they may or may not advertise them in their Yellow Page ads.
  10. mfellows

    mfellows New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
  11. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,852
    Location:
    New York, NY
    That Toto list is an excellent resource, but it is incomplete. It also tends to list places that have nice showrooms and do bath remodeling, etc. Those are very nice, but if you're a DIY and you want to get a good price, those stores are only part of the picture. Many independent or small plumbing supply places carry Toto even though they are not listed on that list. Sometimes, they have the best price.

    For example, I used the Toto site to point out a couple of local dealers to a guy in Austin, Texas. On his own, he also went to the yellow pages and looked up "plumbing supply". He found a great local plumbing supply house which had just started carrying Toto, and which offered a price that was close to National Builder or some of the other online sites. He said that the variation in price among dealers was north of $100/unit, and so I now tell everyone not to assume that prices are similar. They aren't, and the more you call around, the better you're going to do. Maybe it's the second place you call that has the best price, but maybe it's the tenth.

    I would also recommend that when you do, you have the exact model number and color you want, so you are sure you are comparing apples to apples. So, for example, if you want a Cotton White Drake II, you want a price quote on CST454CEFG in color #1, please. (Or "In Cotton White, please".)
  12. FunNut

    FunNut New Member

    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Rowe Mesa, NM
    A couple of years ago I wanted to purchase a Toto Soiree in Sedona Beige. I shopped a lot online and looked at local plumbing supply stores. I found a Soiree that had a great price due to being a floor model, at a local plumbing supply. Fast forward a couple of months and it was time to install the Soiree. The store neglected to put the necessary Unifit adapter in the box with the toilet and when we called to get one they told us to take a hike, tough luck since it was a floor model! I was livid. My husband called Toto customer support in Georgia and explained the situation. Toto send the Unifit adapter to us at no charge and free shipping.

    I just ordered two more Toto toilets

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2012
  13. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,004
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    When I used to ship, I was breaking one out of five.
    I sold five to a customer in Iowa.............and five months later he called to tell me that two of them had internal cracks. Something I don't see when I get them, but I have seen after they bounced around in the back of a semi. There was nothing I could do...........five months before they noticed?
    Too many stories like that............and I realized that I wasn't making money. I had lunch with a guy that used to work for Amazon and was doing online plumbing sales. He wanted to pay me for referrals, which I gave for a while, with nothing in return. He admitted that the breakage on the porcelain was much higher than items like faucets. Yeah..........ya think?

    I remember trying to deliver Gerber toilets in Arizona, and the drop shipper finally asked me to quit buying from him. Way too much stuff was breaking. Yes. I used to ship a lot of Gerber product too. I can't even tell you how badly those suckers broke.
    I'm liking local a lot for heavy and fragile porcelain. Your're not buying a feather light camera wrapped up in a Styrofoam box. Heck you can throw those at the front door and they're okay.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
  14. Mazcar

    Mazcar New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    TX
    So, any chance you remember the name of that great local plumbing supply house in Austin the guy said was cool? That yellow page list is pretty long. :)

    Thanks. This forum is awesome. It almost makes the fun of plumbing overtake the yuks.
  15. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,852
    Location:
    New York, NY
    He said he got a good deal at Josco Plumbing Supply. www.joscoshowroom.com They have a couple of plumbing supply locations and a showroom. Looks like they are Toto fans. If you know the model number and color of the item you want, I would call one of the non-showroom locations (click on "wholesale location" on their web site) and talk price and availability. Their prices might be the same at the showroom, or they might not be...
  16. Mazcar

    Mazcar New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    TX
    I know I pre-thanked you, but THANKS! I picked up a C744EL-01 (C744SL) elongated ADA Drake with a 1.6 tank and a generic seat for $238, including tax. That's the exact same price as a Kohler at HD. The website says it's ADA height; not universal height. So, I hope it's not too tall. Josco is cool and non-judgmental towards DIY'rs. I'll be back.
    Okay, to hijack my own message:
    If my toilet flange is just floating up from the netherworld, should I stuff steel wool or something around it for roach or varmint control? The flange appears to be connected to a cast iron pipe that goes down into my foundation.
    Thanks again!
  17. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,006
    Location:
    New England
    Normally, properly installed, a toilet flange is sitting on top of the finished floor (no gaps!) and anchored to the floor. With a CI flange, there's normally enough integrity where you can get by without it being fully supported on the edges, but if it is TOO high, the toilet won't sit flat on the floor and would rock on the flange. This can be a major problem. If the toilet does fit and sits flat during a dry fit (it might need a shim or two if your floor isn't perfectly flat, that's okay, but make sure to use them if needed!), then you could pack that gap with something like hydraulic cement, caulk, or your steel wool, if you like...
  18. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,852
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Glad to hear the good feedback about Josco! That's a good price, and it's nice to hear again that they're nice folks. Thanks for letting us know about that!

    As to the flange, I'm assuming that this is a replacement toilet; if the flange worked with the other one, it should work with this one, no worries. And as Jim says, stuff away! Of course, I would secure the toilet to the floor with a little bead of polyseamseal, and you can do that all the way around, depending on the requirements in your jurisdiction. That will help keep the varmints and vermin from heading out into your bathroom.

    The Drake II universal height puts the lip of the bowl 16 1/8" off the floor. The Drake ADA height is 16 1/2". I don't think you will find that the 3/8" difference feels too high (or for what it's worth is even noticeable), so I think you made a good choice!!

    Thanks for the update!
  19. Wallijonn

    Wallijonn Member

    Messages:
    144
    Location:
    Arizona
    Thanks for the link. I was looking for it forever. Once you gave me the link I was able to go to the Toto home page and see "Where to buy".

    ---------------------------

    Thanks for the info, guys. Today I was supposed to recieve a Kohler K-3811 online. Waited all day. Finally received an e-mail saying that it was broken in transit. I requested a refund and will look to picking up locally. (And the reason why I bought online? Kohler site only listed HD and Lowe's as places to buy- which they would have to special order. Well, heck, I could do the same thing and save $100. Guess I was wrong... )

    I'm taking it as providence and will try to pickup a MS854114SL locally. Yes, even if I have to pay $100 extra. Staying home all day to receive a toilet is a waste of time.

    Again,

    Thanks.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2014
  20. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,852
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Just as an aside, that Toto link doesn't list everything. I myself like the decidedly low-tech method: find that Yellow Pages and look under Plumbing Supply, and call around. Some of these places will be cheaper and nicer than others. If you call with the specific model number and color number you want, you will be able to get a direct answer on price. I just say something like, "Can you give me a price on a Toto toilet? I have the model and color number." "Sure, fire away." "Okay, it's CST744E, color #01". You will be surprised how much prices and service vary from plumbing supply place to place. Like many little businesses, some suck, some rock.
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