Where does the cleanout for long trap arm continuing into horizontal drain go?

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krik

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Tub draining into 2" trap, 1 ft arm then wye on its back for vertical vent tie-in, then another 5 ft before the first horizontal long sweep 90 turn. Where does the "cleanout at the upper end of the draining pipe" go? Do I put a wye on its side right after the trap arm, or do I use a cleanout fitting so it can be cleaned towards the trap too?

EDIT --- rather than open a thread for every question, one more thing I'm trying to figure out:

I need to run in the opposite direction of the 3" drain line in order to vent my tub and shower. what's the right order of fittings and cleanouts to make the 180 deg turn and connection? I was thinking trap -> cleanout -> wye for vertical vent -> long 90 -> wye on its side with cleanout at the 135 turn mark -> 45 (then we're in same direction as 3") -> and then 45 + wye "vertical" into the 3" --- does that sound right or is there an easier solution?
 
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Cacher_Chick

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A tub is always snaked through the overflow. The cleanout for the drain can go on the vertical vent if it will be accessible.
 

krik

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A tub is always snaked through the overflow. The cleanout for the drain can go on the vertical vent if it will be accessible.

OK that makes sense. For the sake of argument, let's say I have a 5 ft arm going straight into another 5 ft drain line -- do I need a cleanout or is that entirely covered by snaking through the overflow? I'm thinking it's better to have some extra cleanouts, but wondering just in case I can't make the required clearance in front of em ...
 

Cacher_Chick

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You are only permitted up to 8' between the trap and it's vent, and the pitch of that distance cannot exceed 1/4" per foot. For the straight section of line, no cleanout would be required, but you would not be able to clean a 2" line very well through the overflow alone.
 

krik

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You are only permitted up to 8' between the trap and it's vent, and the pitch of that distance cannot exceed 1/4" per foot. For the straight section of line, no cleanout would be required, but you would not be able to clean a 2" line very well through the overflow alone.

We're restricted to 5 ft trap to vent. So because I'll have a total 8 to 9 ft run (trap arm + drain) I'll add a wye w/ cleanout right after the trap. Seems like the safest bet in case crap gets stuck. Does this make sense for the arm and the planned 180 turn? (so sorry for the crappy drawing! imagine the trap/vent vertical, and 45 into the main drain wye at 45 deg off vertical. everything else is horizontal)

180plumb.jpg
 

hj

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I would put the cleanout in the vertical vent line. Any time I see a drain line with that many twists and turns, I want to see the actual site, because it should be possible to "straighten it out".
 

krik

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I would put the cleanout in the vertical vent line. Any time I see a drain line with that many twists and turns, I want to see the actual site, because it should be possible to "straighten it out".

I've tried pretty hard to not have a 180. Here's the floor plan --- the 3" is about 18" below subfloor at the lowest point. the walls on the left and top can't be used to run vents. red cross wall is new and is where I was going to vent at least the shower (middle star) because I see no way to properly vent that when going at 90 deg straight to 3". I might be able to 90 then dump vertical into 3" if I have enough height to make that turn, but that's still essentially a 180 just with a few less fittings. Tub (top star) I might vent at right red wall, which mayyy just let me run at 90 to 3" (but I might not have enough height to stay 45deg+ with the vent). Toilet (bottom star) will vent at red cross wall and then wye into the 3".

EDIT: everything outside the drawing is a slab. I need to fit all connections inside the crawlspace.



180plumb.jpg
 

hj

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A 45 instead of the second 90 would head you DIRECTLY into the green line with a combo connection. OR you could eliminate that fitting entirely and go directly into the 3" toilet line. As I said, there are probably several ways to straighten it out, depending on the situation.
 

krik

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Yes that makes sense. I had thought about that, and what didn't make sense to me was where to put the cleanout(s). Let's say I use a 90 -> 45 + combo, the flow makes a 225 turn by the time we're in the green line, so I'd put a cleanout after the first 90?

And does it make a difference whether we go into the green line horizontal or vertical for the purpose of cleanout? For example, if I replace the above with horizontal 90, then long sweep vertical into a combo on its back. I still technically make 225 turn of flow, but a lot of it doesn't happen inside horizontal fittings? I don't understand code here --- for example see picture below, does this count as a 90 change for cleanout purposes, or can I make any horizontal change when flowing vertical??

EDIT: and what if I omitted the 45, and put the 90 on the wye? (it's over 45 deg so still vertically connected, no)?

fitting.jpg
 

krik

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This would save me a lot of fittings if I can connect like this after the first 90:
fitting2.jpg
 

hj

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If that is a 3" x 2" elbow, you are using an expensive fitting where you don't have to. I normally do NOT try to lay out systems because no matter how you describe them the reader has the option of doing it wrong. Put the cleanout in the pipe in the wall. Either use a 45 into the main line or go straight to the toilet's line. In EITHER place, use a 3x2 combination Y-1/8 bend flat, or rolled up with either a 22 1/2 or 45 elbow, street or regular depending on how high you want the lateral line. There are so many ways it could be done, that you would be totally confused if I tried to describe even a few of them, and even then the depth of the pipe under the floor would determine which could be used.
 

krik

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There are so many ways it could be done, that you would be totally confused if I tried to describe even a few of them, and even then the depth of the pipe under the floor would determine which could be used.

Understood and thanks for the advice. I think I get the gist --- don't use a separate turn if you can build that turn into the tie-in fitting(s). Essentially the line will run "backwards", then have a 90, and then somehow tie directly into the 3" lines. No need to "straighten it out" first.

Still confused about what is counted as part of the 135 deg cleanout rule, though :) But I'll play it safe and try to have one too many instead of one too few.
 
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