What kind of toilet flange is this?

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Taylor, Apr 19, 2008.

  1. Taylor

    Taylor New Member

    Messages:
    143
    Location:
    Northern Joisey
    Sorry for another toilet flange question....Can anyone tell me what I have here? This is in my basement, lifted up the old toilet, scraped off the wax as best I can, and I'm left with this. That thing on the right is some of kind of plastic insert that I lifted out. For the remainder, it looks like there are two lips, the lower lip may be a sleeve around the upper, unless there's a seam right at the top of the upper lip that I can't make out because of goop. The bolts that held down the toilet went into the lower lip. No other screws or bolts that I can detect. Both upper and lower feel metallic but bend easily when hammered. The upper lip and interior is black and grey, the lower lip looks like corroded CI. Is it possible this is lead all the way to the CI waste line?

    The house BTW is 1927, the lower lip had carpet backing under it, which I'm guessing was put there in the 60s when they covered beautiful oak floor in the rest of the house with carpet.

    Eventually I'll need to put on a flange extender (the floor will be raised either by mud or SLC) or just replace the whole flange. The upper lip is not even slightly flat, let alone level, perhaps the plastic part is for levelling? This toilet would not see much traffic, the odd pee while watching TV, so I don't feel like knocking myself out replacing lead if that's what I have. I wouldn't mind taking it out and starting fresh, if it's not too hard. But I don't want to do anything until I know what I've got.

    Thanks for any help.

    [​IMG]
  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,837
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    flange

    It is a bad picture, but at that time it would have either been lead or cast iron and that one does not have the lead/oakum joint for a cast iron flange, so it is probably a brass flange with the lead up through it and then bent over the top of it.
  3. Taylor

    Taylor New Member

    Messages:
    143
    Location:
    Northern Joisey
    Thanks, now I know what to search for in the archives...

    ....and sorry 'bout the pic, poorly lit area.....

    I assume replacing the flange involves beating the lead straight up, cutting the flange, inserting a new flange, beating the lead out again..... ugh, many potential failure points.....
  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,153
    Location:
    New England
    As I understand it, the lead is not only bent over the brass flange ring, it is then soldered to it...
  5. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,360
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    This is ancient. I'd strongly urge you to have a professional install an up to date flange and install a new Toto Drake.
  6. Taylor

    Taylor New Member

    Messages:
    143
    Location:
    Northern Joisey
    Thanks for the suggestion. This is not far from where I believe it goes into my main waste line, so I might just replace the whole lead pipe....eventually. If I keep it, I'll definitely have a pro replace the flange.

    I was actually thinking of putting a Kohler Memoirs there, that was swapped out elsewhere by a Toto Clayton. I think the Memoirs can hold the flow from a pee (but not much more).

    Jim, there was wax between the two lips....and above them and below them. Wax everywhere. The plastic thing on top was surely not original.
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,837
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    flange

    The lead was often not soldered to the flange, the idea being that it was creating a "funnel" so a seal was not necessary. But given that lead waste pipes have a finite lifetime, replacing the bend with cast iron or plastic might be a good idea.
  8. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,360
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Wonder why the Kohler was swapped for a Toto? Could there be as message hidden here? Nah, everyone knows the name Kohler stands for superior quality and performance. Not!
  9. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,837
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    KofK or Toto

    Maybe not, but I install a lot more Kohlers than I do Totos, and the customers do not seem to have a problem with that.
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