What can I do with this carrier?

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Joerg, Jan 10, 2006.

  1. Joerg

    Joerg New Member

    Messages:
    138
    Location:
    Califonia
    Hello Folks,

    Tore up the wall to see whether I can adjust the carrier (the waste horn is 1/2" too high). Of course this kind of, ahem, 'carrier' cannot be adjusted. I posted a photo. I see two options:

    #1 Rip out all the wood, cut new wood and screw it in again. Kind of a pain because I have to tear stuff out of the framing. Plus I don't trust it much with a heavy toilet like a Glenwall.

    #2 Re-plumb for floor discharge. This has three challenges. The floor has a thick mudbed and it'll destroy the tile. Oh well, I don't mind tiling. The 2nd is venting since it's tight down there and I'd have to 'detour' the old stack around the floor discharge pipe to vent downstream as code requires. Can I run 2" vent down there and tap it in or does it have to be 3" up to the toilet trap height?

    The biggest challenge with #2 is that I'd like to get rid of that little addition. The ABS is really tight in there and I don't know how to saw it off and cap it so it still acts as a vent, is per code and won't protrude into the new drywall or Hardibacker.

    Any ideas?

    Regards, Joerg.

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  2. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Move the Bolts

    You can move the bolts, using any of several methods. It looks to me like there is space to allow for a couple of washers. A 1/2"higher toilet is not a big deal.

    Take the toilet bolts out and enlarge the holes. Get/make some big 3/16" thick washers and relocate the bolts. You can make it permanent by welding the washers to the plate, or by putting some small bolts through each washer to hold them in position.

    If you want, you can weld up the holes and drill new ones.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2006
  3. Joerg

    Joerg New Member

    Messages:
    138
    Location:
    Califonia
    Thanks, Bob. I guess I'll take it out first. For welding I'd have to anyway. That turned up two more problems. The photo doesn't show it well but they installed the vertical wood members a bit crooked so the carrier flanges have bent outward. Meaning it doesn't come out without ripping the wood out. I took out the screws and it won't move without the sound of splintering wood.

    Then the threaded nipple won't budge. I tried as hard as I could and it won't turn.

    Still thinking about re-plumbing to floor discharge but not looking forward to it. I'd have to lose some weight just to get there ;)

    Regards, Joerg.
  4. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    It is the toilet bolts that I would move. Just move them so that the new locations would result in the toilet outlet being in line with the existing drain connection. It would involve making the holes oval, since the movement is only 1/2 inch, and covering both sides with large, thick washers. The studs that support the toilet look like they could be easily removed and put in the new holes.

    The welding that I was referring to was if you wanted to tack the new washers to the mounting plate so they couldn't slip. That amount of welding could be done in-place with a small 115 Volt portable welder. Welding would not really be required, but a belt-and-suspenders approach.

    With a decent drill, and a grinding stone on a die grinder or a Roto-Zip, the whole thing could be done in an hour or so.
  5. Joerg

    Joerg New Member

    Messages:
    138
    Location:
    Califonia
    Hello Bob,

    That sounds like a good idea. I got the required grinding stones. Instead of welding I could make small metal pieces that fill the lower portion of the oval to prevent sliding.

    I'd also have to shore up the bottom portion because the side screws have worn their holes and slosh around a bit but this should be no problem.

    The other issue with the non-moving nipple could possibly be overcome by using Hardibacker istead of drywall. It's thinner so the waste horn can stick out the required 5/16". I'd have to find out how to prime and paint that stuff. Maybe with the rougher side out it could work.

    What really scares me with these kinds of carriers is that the toilet places a lot of pulling force on the top studs. All that holds the carrier sides is an inch or so of wood. Maybe I'll add some metal there as well and faster it to some wood further inwards.

    What's a miracle to me is that this toilet hasn't leaked. All they had done to deal with the offset was to use a wax ring instead of the usual gasket.

    Regards, Joerg.
  6. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    "What really scares me with these kinds of carriers is that the toilet places a lot of pulling force on the top studs. All that holds the carrier sides is an inch or so of wood. Maybe I'll add some metal there as well and fasten it to some wood further inwards."

    The easiest way to carry the load farther inward would be to get four 1/4 x 3" lag screws and flat washers to be installed as follows:

    In each stud, about 1.5 inches above and below the TOP bolt that fastens the carrier to the stud, drill a 1/4" hole about 1" into the stud, and a 5/32 pilot hole to about 3" deep. Put the lag screws in to reinforce the stud against splitting from the top bolt load.

    Another way, if the area is accessible, is to drill some holes through the carrier flange and put some lag screws into the stud.

    You really don't need to fill the old holes. Get thick washers large enough to cover the holes on both sides (8 washers required), and tighten the nuts really well. You might want to put some thick epoxy into the holes, and some epoxy on the threads that hold the studs into the plate so they will never come loose behind the wall.
  7. Joerg

    Joerg New Member

    Messages:
    138
    Location:
    Califonia
    Hello Bob,

    Thanks, I didn't know that trick to prevent splitting. Well, I grew up in a region that didn't have wood frame houses. Toilet installation in Europe sure was easier. You can buy back-discharge units even at the hardware stores. Not those ugly fat ones but elegant closets where you can connect the pipe to the back. That allows lots of flexibility since you can buy adapter pieces that can be adjusted in angle. One of those and I'd be done in a jiffy.

    I'll probably make some steel plates and take the load of the top screws (side screws) way further back. It is pretty accessible there.

    After some more wrestling I suspect another rather tough problem: The waste horn will absolutely not budge. Thought it was ok but it has to come out a wee bit so I can re-install 1/2" Hardibacker board behind the toilet where the drywall was. I cannot see whether it is a threaded nipple. Possibly not, maybe just glued in. It's all ABS and I am not sure how to safely peel this waste horn insert out of there (intact, since they probably don't make those anymore).

    Regards, Joerg.
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