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C.Chase

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Hi, I've just had a crash course in WH's! Thanks to everyone in this forum, lots of helpful information!!

Currently, getting estimates on replacing this nearly 17yr WH, Rheem Ngas 50g, it started gushing out the bottom- where the blue meets the white tank in pict-- I never did any kind of drain flush etc maintenance- BC I didn't know I should. But apparently there is a circulation line installed- at bottom of tank to the drain valve, in 1st picture.

**Is it possible that this circulation line, pictured, kept the sediment in tank to a minimum??
----it has a small motor? Pump? Sry, idk. attached inline before the copper heads into house. Well, it hasn't been plugged in, but it was explained to me that it probably was still draining BC of gravity pull.
Ok,
One Plumber explained the"loop", said remove it, I don't need it, asked why do I need it especially if not plugged in & the constant heat would destroy my copper pipes. He wants to remove, &plug pipe. &Yes, charge me extra for that. He also says I should get new handle to turn water incoming on/off up at top of tank, 3rd pict. He said it will probably start leaking. It never has, & an extra $25 charge. He will roll old tank to my curb. & Replace 2water lines& gas line.

Another Plumber said, you already have it plumbed, keep it, even without plugging it in, it is draining & helping remove sediment buildup. He charges no extra to keep or remove. Of course his phone bid was high anyhow, before learning of circulation pipe. He has 1price for standard 50g- replace WH, & hoses. & Something about replace a gas valve included. & Haul old tank away.

QUESTION- which is correct? Do I keep line or not??
Also,
Should I replace the incoming water inlet faucet just because? Should the gas valve be changed- is that standard?

*Finally, currently have original brass water lines at tank top, no leaks- should they be replaced with stainless steel? & Gas inlet line at bottom replaced with what?

Sorry for lengthy post! I just want to be clear enough to get some good helpful feedback. I'm tired of being taken advantage of in situations like this... Yes I'm a gal-- & if I had more muscle I'd install myself!! That & if I knew about soldering pipes!!
Thanks everyone!!! :)

**OK, now to make final decision on if I replace WH with rheem performance platinum 12yr warranty, I'd supply from home depot-- or go with Bradford white from Ferguson's 6yr warranty model# URG150T6N -- I can supply& have Plumber install, or let Plumber supply the BW. Rheem isn't carried except at home depot. I'm in Los Angeles county.
 

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hj

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1. I can guarantee that the system is NOT working unless the pump was plugged in and working properly.
2. It CANNOT "remove sediment" even if the pump is working.
3. I always replace a supply valve which has a "wheel" handle
4. 6, 8, 9, 10, or 12 years are all the same water heater, you just pay more for the "extended warranty". If you supply it, the plumber has absolutely NO responsibility if anything goes wrong with it.
 

C.Chase

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1. I can guarantee that the system is NOT working unless the pump was plugged in and working properly.
". If you supply it, the plumber has absolutely NO responsibility if anything goes wrong with it.

Thanks for advice. I assume pump works. Is it good idea to keep that line in? Get it re-plumbed into new WH? Do I even need the hot water on a loop? Water is delivered fairly fast to farthest faucet.

I did not know the Plumber not responsible for WH I provide... Thanks so much for tip!!

Re home depot, the Rheem 59g 12yr warranty $698, after$109 rebate) is only one with brass fitting & anode rod. The other models are plastic cheaper versions. but bottom of barrel 50g BW brand, is $551. & Comes just as good as Rheem 12yr model. So going with BW, thx
 

Gary Swart

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Regarding the recirculation system. Make sure it is still operational and keep it. Some folks has their's on a timer, but I keep mine on 24/7. No wait for hot water. My pump quit after about 8 years of full time operation. Quick and easy replacement. Even if you don't have long runs between heater and use points, it is nice to have virtually instant hot water whenever you want it.
 

Jadnashua

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Two things can happen when you install a WH...the tank fails (manufacturer's warranty), or there's an issue with the install. For most plumbers, if they supply it, they'll deal with the cost to replace it and take care of the warranty issues with the manufacturer. If it fails for some reason, and you supplied the tank, any labor to replace it (even if the tank might be free) will be charged at their normal labor rates.

Whomever installed the hot water recirculation system may have found that they got adequate performance with just non-powered convection. That can work if you're lucky or it was well designed. Most retrofit installs of recirculation require a pump to work. It doesn't take much of a change in the piping to make the convection circuit stop. I'd check the pump in case it has failed, and consider replacing it while you have the plumber there even if you don't use it. Now, depending on the pump, some of them have replaceable cartridges, and you can reuse the pump body without removing the whole thing. If yours does have that, you could just leave it without replacing it.

As long as the pump is properly sized and plumbed, it should have little effect on the longevity of your pipes.
 

C.Chase

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How long is the plumber responsible for the WH he provides
The Plumber I'm going with fully stands behind the WH he's providing& installing, and backs up the warranty. &All Plumbers I spoke with, stated that they covered their own work for 1year.
 

C.Chase

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Some folks has their's on a timer, but I keep mine on 24/7.
Gary, idk that a timer was possible, & I'm with you on instant hot water! However it's been hot fast without. The pump was installed in 2000. I'm assuming, when previous owner had new WH installed. It was turned off for years back in mid 2000s... Then back on, it was working. Then I unplugged (idk why?!) for last few years. Nothing much seemed to change when it running or not, as far as hot water at faucet.

non-powered convection
Thank you, I believe this is my situation, and yes it must be plumbed real well, bc even without pump on, hot water was within 2 second at furthest faucet.

As long as the pump is properly sized and plumbed, it should have little effect on the longevity of your pipes.
Very good to know!
*Thanks everyone for replies :)
 

C.Chase

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Most retrofit installs of recirculation require a pump to work. It doesn't take much of a change in the piping to make the convection circuit stop. I'd check the pump i

jadnashua,
I'm hoping very little pipe reconfiguration will be needed. I moved a cabinet out that was beside WH platform, to allow for easier access... But I understand what you are saying. I will discuss with Plumber.
*Also, I don't know for sure the pump is functional since I can't recall WHY I even unplugged it :(
Will it damage pump to plug it in to check without water? It's so tiny...no idea if uses cartridge. I will have to research it, so focused on WH that I forgot little pump!

I will add pump info here after I check it out later on. Thank you
 

C.Chase

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Thanks, I will check out that pump!

In the meantime I just read an article that stated a circulation pump does not save the homeowner any money.
http://www.treehugger.com/clean-tec...-recirculation-pump-really-save-me-money.html
"The reason for installing a hot water circulation pump is pure convenience. If you can't stand waiting a minute for hot water to emerge from the faucet and the operating cost is of no concern to you, then this is the solution for you."
o_O
 
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C.Chase

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Whomever installed the hot water recirculation system
I learned more, yes it was actually installed as Gravity hot water recirculating loop! Natural convection drives the system. And it has been working without pump quite well.
*Previous homeowner added pump but don't know why, except maybe wanted hot even faster.

Current plan is to just repipe loop to new tank drain, as close to original configuration as possible. &Hope for best.
 

Gary Swart

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I did not note in my previous reply that when my original recirc. pump failed, I still had hot water quite quickly. Just natural convection I suppose. I have no idea how much electricity my pump uses, I can't bother trying to figure such trivial things.
 

Jadnashua

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Many water pumps can be ruined by running them without water. I do not know about the specifics of the one you have.
 

C.Chase

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*Pict of new piping configuration.
---> does anyone see any issues with this new plumbing??
*I just realized he removed check valve- is that a problem?

New WH in, BW URG250T6N
& circulation line with pump, re-plumbed to new drain- plumbing reconfiguration between tank drain and pump.(bottom Pict)

*After it all going,
With pump unplugged,
Now farthest point that used to be hot within about 2sec (master sink) now cold for a good minute. Master shower cold for over minute... Then very hot to scalding when a toilet flushed. That had never happened before with flushing.
*I am now assuming circulation loop is not functioning at all. ?
*Tank temp set to "B", (hot, a,b,c,very hot settings.) May turn down to A.
*The tank drain valve and piping lead to pump are also extremely hot to touch- don't recall that with old pump. Is that normal?
 

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C.Chase

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About my pump- quite old!! It's a grundfos up15-18sf 1/25hp & was discontinued in 2009!!! It has a replacement pump grundfos up15-29sf For $300. Ouch.
My pump does use a cartridge, which is available @$95.
*Does anyone know if I can change cartridge and pump will work? Is it that simple?
* And if pump broken, if pump heats up extremely hot but silent-- & pipe leading from it did get slt warm... but hot water at faucets not checked bc Plumber unplugged pump thinking motor must be frozen.
-- maybe tmro I should turn pump on again, and check faucets? Can that hurt anything?
*I feel like a LOT of water is now being wasted, waiting for hot water...& Socal needs every drop!
Thanks again.
 
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hj

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Removing the check valve is a MAJOR problem. You will probably start running out of hot water at the tub/shower, or run a lot more water at the tub to compensate for it it is also probably why the water gets hot when the toilet flushes. That "U" bend at the heater SHOULD prevent any gravity circulation from working properly.
 
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