well

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by Lee Tanner, Jan 11, 2009.

  1. Lee Tanner

    Lee Tanner New Member

    Messages:
    15
    I was looking for some answers about my well, I have a sumb pump 1 hp and a presure tank, the tank is buried its a 30 gallon tank, every couple of months I have to take an air compersor blow out water from the tank and then put air in the system, works good for a couple of months and then the air is gone and its waterlogged again, its been this way since I have had it,the only solution I know will work is build a well house, get an above ground tank and put an air volume control on it, I know this will work because my friend has his this way and never has any trouble. My question is how can i make the way it is work, i seen alot like this and there the same way have to add air.
  2. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Yes you're right but you could buy a bladder type tank instead of air over water that allows the air to be absorbed into the water.
  3. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Your doing that every 2 months because the tank has a leak. If the ground is frozen, wait till it thaws, build your well house and install a diaphragm tank. Expose the line at the well and all the way to the discharge of the tank. Remove the tank, connect to the line that was on the discharge, and run it back and up into the well house. Run the line from the well into the well house and make both connections. You will also need to expose the electrical line and run it into the well house too. The line that goes to the well now will have to run into the pressure switch and then another back to the well to run the pump. Just make sure the well house is insulated good and has enough heat.

    sammy

    www.tylerwellandpump.com
  4. Lee Tanner

    Lee Tanner New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Thanks for the advice. SO I guess I will be getting a well house. Another question, I called the driller back after instlation and he pulled the hose up about a foot and drilled a small hole in the line comming from the pump and then my pipe strected and the pump was sucking mud. the question is why the hole and why do these guys keep installing these system with the buried tanks, I guess some must work, but I have yet to see one, and in this area this driller is mostly used . So to the repely, If I get a bladder tank, this would work better than the air volume control? IF so why? what kind of well house do you think would be better a block wall or a frame one?
  5. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I don't know what's up with these guys but It's beyond me why anyone would bury a tank. The tank you have allows the water to have contact with the air which can cause an iron problem and they are a pain in the rump to maintain. You are constantly losing your air because its mixing with the water. A diaphragm tank is a captive air tank and keeps the water separated from the air chamber. I would pour a concrete slab for the well house and and frame it with insulation. Run your lines a few feet into the well house and up. Keep the line at 4 feet and then sweep straight up. You are going to want to run gthe lines first and then pour your concrete.

    sammy

    www.tylerwellandpump.com
  6. WV Hillbilly

    WV Hillbilly New Member

    Messages:
    178
    Location:
    WV
    I assume the pipe from the buried tank goes to your house . Could you install a tank at the house ? If so just remove the buried tank & connect the pipe to the well & bury the pipe . From what I've read you could use a small pressure tank & a CSV if tank installation has to be in a small area . If you could install the tank at the house it should be a lot less work & expense than building a well house . Where does the water pipe from the well enter your house ? Crawl space , basement , ect. ?
  7. Lee Tanner

    Lee Tanner New Member

    Messages:
    15
    The pipe enters my house in the wall at the water heater, the house is on a slab, the water heater is in the laundry closet. If I use a csv how big would the tank have to be and could the pressure switch still be outside at the same location? How does the csv and a small tank work?
  8. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I would see if you can get the CSV setup to fit in that closet. How much space do you have? Someone posted a picture of a CSV setup with a small irrigation tank. I forget the post and who posted it. You need to have the pressure switch at the tank because you will get water hammer that will cause it to chatter. If Valveman sees this he will assist you with what you need.

    sammy

    www.tylerwellandpump.com
  9. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Lee, i found the image on the post, pressure switch cycling rapidly at cut in. That's a nice setup!

    sammy

    www.tylerwellandpump.com
  10. Lee Tanner

    Lee Tanner New Member

    Messages:
    15
    The setup I saw had a 5 gallon tank was that the one? If so would the pump come on every time the water would come on, I don't understand how a 5 gallon tank can support my house it seems to me the pump would run more, is there something I'am missing?
  11. Lee Tanner

    Lee Tanner New Member

    Messages:
    15
    another thing is my fater is having the same problem with his well so he has decided to build a well but he has the space where his water enter through the ultily room to put a tank which is about 80' from the well, if the tank is relocated to here would the presure switch also? his well has a starter box can you tell me how to set this up to have worry free water.
  12. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    The pressure switch should always be located at the tank!The main purpose of a holding tank is to provide a spot for the pump to displace water once water stops being used. The pump needs a minimum of one minute of cool down time between the start and stop. If you have a pump that puts out 10 GPM, you will need a tank that has a minimum capacity of 10 gallons to get that one minute cool down time. The cycle stop valve will restrict the flow of water to one gallon per minute once the pressure reaches 50 psi. At a 40/60 cycle, so as long as the tank that you have has a minimum storage capacity of 1 gallon after that 50 psi mark your good shape. I believe you could go with a 2.5 gallon capacity tank(dont have a chart in front of me).

    sammy
  13. alternety

    alternety Like an engineer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    Washington
    I believe that a 10 gallon tank will not guarantee any minimum off time for the pump. That would only be determined by how fast water was being used.
  14. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
  15. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
  16. alternety

    alternety Like an engineer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    Washington
    Sorry Sammy, I read that wrong. I thought it said a 1 minute rest between running. You are absolutely correct that a tank with a usable capacity of 10 gallons will give a 1 minute run for a 10 gpm pump.
  17. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Witch, t's basic math. If you have a 10 gallon void to fill and your filling it at 10 gallons per minute, how long do you think it will take to fill?

    sammy

    www.tylerwellandpump.com
  18. alternety

    alternety Like an engineer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    Washington
    The key (and what I got confused) is that it appears to be one minute RUN TIME, not one minute between runs. Sammy said from on to off, not from off to on. I the cooling would take place because of the water passing through the pump the motor. This assumes that the start causes excessive heat.

    This is kind of non-intuitive for me. I would have thought that the heat that needed to be dispersed would be the accumulation from the run mode that had been trapped by losing the water flow at the end of the run cycle. Sammy's post implies the opposite.

    It is, I believe generally accepted, that short cycling the pump is a bad thing. This is generally solved by a pressure tank big enough to insure that action. The cvs thing, if I understand correctly, runs the pump at full speed when there is demand, but throttles a pressure regulated flow to match the load. This means that (effectively) as long as water is being drawn, the pump runs all the time. That is why a small tank is OK. It is not as efficient a process as using traditional tanks and a free flowing pump but I believe it provides more constant pressure to the user.
  19. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Witch,
    i think you are confusing yourself. The motors starting mechanism needs a minimum of one minute of run time from start to stop to provide proper cooling. It doesn't take much demand for the pump to start at it's cut in pressure.

    If the pressure in the system is just about at its low turn on pressure, someone gets a glass of water, the pump turns on, that person shuts off the faucet,the pump fills the tank. From there it needs a minimum of one minute of run time. If you still don't get the concept of that, i don't know what else or any other way of explaining it

    sammy

    www.tylerwellandpump.com
  20. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Sammy... you had it right to start with, 60 seconds off between starts for proper cooling of the motor. That's for up to 1.5 hp motors.

    The other guys are right about the pump with average sized tanks coming on in less than 60 seconds depending on demand.

    Also, a 10 gpm pump will put out more than10 gpm in most wells unless the pump is set at the pumping level that only allows 10 gpm from the depth of the pump.

    The CSV allows the pump to run from the time the switch closes until the water use stops, then the pump fills the tank. Pump motors are rated for continuous use and the number of starts determines how long the motor will last; the fewer starts the longer the life of the motor.

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