Well Pump sizing and info on Franklin / Schaefer pump 3200 Series

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keeena

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I have 2 questions to entertain y'all with:

I have a well dedicated for irrigation. 300' deep in the northeast. It's currently a 1.5HP pump; don't have more specs than that. My question: how do I determine what size pump I need? I don't have a meter on my system; is one necessary to figure this one?

I also wanted to checking the price for a 3200 series pump, model 7SR15S4-2W2630. Its a 4" 7GPM, stainless 1.5HP pump 2-wire, 230v. I just want to make sure i'm not being excessively up-charged for the unit. I'm cool with a generous stocking % which I totally understand, just want to make sure what I was charged was in a reasonable ballpark. I found the motor (only, #2443099004) online for ~$700, but haven't found the entire assembly.
 

Reach4

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Get http://franklinwater.com/media/162927/mj3200_jclass_3200_series_brochure.pdf and see the graphs and tables. If looking at the graphs, 10 ft is 4.33 PSI. The tables do the math for you. So in picking out a pump, you will want to know what PSI you want and what flow you want.

Remember it is how far down the water is rather than the bottom of the hole that counts.

I think a 1 HP 10 GPM would probably be a better fit for you. See the tables and see what you think. Also, if you run a lot of hours, a 3-wire pump with a box with a start and run capacitor could save some electricity.
 

keeena

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Thanks Reach4. Yeah, you're not the first to say that a 1hp may be a better fit. I unfortunately don't recall the amount the pump cycled for my irrigation load. I do have a 40gal well tank and all lines out from there are 1". Most zones have 5 impact rotors on 3/4" line. Based on the Rainbird specs, each sprinkler indicates good for up to 4 GPM @ my pressure (55psi) for the blue nozzles (which most are fitted with...see specs linked below). But wouldn't that mean that 5 heads would be 20GPM? They seem to function fine at whatever the current pump's rating is.

A full run through all zones is 3hrs; typically only 1x/day.

Spec sheet is here
http://www.rainbird.com/documents/diy/man_AG5-instructions.pdf
 
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Reach4

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Thanks Reach4. Yeah, you're not the first to say that a 1hp may be a better fit. I unfortunately don't recall the amount the pump cycled for my irrigation load.
If you do it right, the pump will not cycle for irrigation at all. You will adjust the zones to each consume what the pump produces, so there will be little to no cycling.

You could use a CSV before the pressure tank and switch to run the pump continuously during irrigation without having to tune the irrigation load as carefully. But even then, it is best to consume almost as much as the pump can produce, and shut the pump system off when there is enough water on the plants.
 
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keeena

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Some info:
  • Pressure switch is set to pump off @ 60psi, on at 40psi.
  • The zones w/ 5 impact rotors: the system will sit at 42-44psi, pump on 100% cycle duty.
  • 1 oddball zone w/ gear rotors: the system drops to 40psi in 1m20s. Pump takes 2m40s to bring back up to 60. Cycle repeats. Sounds like this is one is not optimal at all.
  • 1 small zone for shrubs and whatnot - haven't measures but hopefully low cycling.
Thoughts (other than the obvious need to get those gear rotors swapped out for impacts)?

valveman - the one you linked is quite a bit different; that's a much cheaper series. BUT that P/N led me to find a site with prices for my model. Assuming the site's pricing is "typical", I paid a 25% premium. Good to know, i suppose..

[edit] - Now that i have more zones which have run, it looks like this pump is undersized. It could barely keep 25psi for the rear zones; they looked really anemic. <sigh>
 
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PumpMd

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valveman - the one you linked is quite a bit different; that's a much cheaper series. BUT that P/N led me to find a site with prices for my model. Assuming the site's pricing is "typical", I paid a 25% premium. Good to know, i suppose..[/QUOTE]

Top of the line pumps by Franklin

Submersible Pumps
Residential/Light Commercial
FPS
Schaefer
J-Class
Water Horse


The 3200 Series submersible pumps are designed so that all parts of the pump end, including the cable guard, fall within the diameter of Franklin Electric’s industry leading submersible 4" motor. This reduced diameter pump end makes it ideal for installations where the well is considered encrusted or tight in comparison to a standard 4" well. The 3200 Series also offers a hydraulic stage design optimized for greater water and pressure output when installed at deeper well depths.
 

Craigpump

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[QUOTE="PumpMd, post: 497241, memberThe 3200 Series submersible pumps are designed so that all parts of the pump end, including the cable guard, fall within the diameter of Franklin Electric’s industry leading submersible 4" motor. This reduced diameter pump end makes it ideal for installations where the well is considered encrusted or tight in comparison to a standard 4" well. The 3200 Series also offers a hydraulic stage design optimized for greater water and pressure output when installed at deeper well depths.[/QUOTE]


Ah....that's total BS.

Yes, the wet end has a reduced diameter, but it still has the standard 4" motor that will stick or drag in an encrusted 4" well.
 

PumpMd

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3.3 to 3.7gpm for each head on the blue nozzles with 5heads holding at 42-44psi tells me you probably have a 15gpm pump already.

Usually sprinkler guys want 20gpm around here but your sprinkler guy should've done two things with that pump already in place.

1. Had you call the well installer to check what gpm your pump was and what it can do if your static water drops to design your system properly to that pump. The sprinkler guy could ask for more gpm after that.

2. He could've checked the gpm flow rate himself to know he should've stayed around 15gpm.
 
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PumpMd

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[QUOTE="PumpMd, post: 497241, memberThe 3200 Series submersible pumps are designed so that all parts of the pump end, including the cable guard, fall within the diameter of Franklin Electric’s industry leading submersible 4" motor. This reduced diameter pump end makes it ideal for installations where the well is considered encrusted or tight in comparison to a standard 4" well. The 3200 Series also offers a hydraulic stage design optimized for greater water and pressure output when installed at deeper well depths.


Ah....that's total BS.

Yes, the wet end has a reduced diameter, but it still has the standard 4" motor that will stick or drag in an encrusted 4" well.

I totally agree, it still doesn't leave the room like a 3" pump will.
 
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Reach4

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Ah....that's total BS.

Yes, the wet end has a reduced diameter, but it still has the standard 4" motor that will stick or drag in an encrusted 4" well.
How do you figure? I think there is a big difference between a 3.75 inch OD vs a 3.9 in a 4 inch ID steel casing.

I understand that you would rather put a 2.9 inch pump into that casing.
 

Reach4

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Snip from http://franklinwater.com/media/114490/M1479_MDC_Catalog_01-14_WEB.pdf

img_1.png
 

Craigpump

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The motor mount/suction screen on the 3200 series is the same diameter as on the 4400, which is the same diameter as the motor.

You're still going to have friction on the motor mount/suction screen on the 3200, so the reduced diameter body on the wet end isn't going to gain much.
 

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Reach4

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The motor mount/suction screen on the 3200 series is the same diameter as on the 4400, which is the same diameter as the motor.
What about the cable guard? Does that stick out farther on the 4400?
 

PumpMd

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I've been wondering why drillers are using 4" and smaller in the first place "save on cost"? Doesn't sound like savings to me when your pump gets stuck in the future.
 

PumpMd

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The motor mount/suction screen on the 3200 series is the same diameter as on the 4400, which is the same diameter as the motor.

You're still going to have friction on the motor mount/suction screen on the 3200, so the reduced diameter body on the wet end isn't going to gain much.

Franklin Pumpso_O I thought you were going with grundfos;)
 

Craigpump

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I have these kicking around in my used/test pump pile. I've got a few Goulds too. Never know when you're going to need a good used pump to help someone out.

To the best of my knowledge, until Grundfos came out with the Jet Sub, there were no small diameter pumps available. So it was either a 4" pump or a jet pump.

Until PVC became accepted, steel was the material of choice.

I think a better question would be, why use 4" steel pipe? Why not drill & set larger diameter pipe?
 
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Valveman

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Top of the line pumps by Franklin
Submersible Pumps
Residential/Light Commercial
FPS
Schaefer
J-Class
Water Horse


I don’t see much if any difference between these and Little Giant, Monarch, Utilitech, or any of the other names Franklin uses.


To the best of my knowledge, until Grundfos came out with the Jet Sub, there were no small diameter pumps available. So it was either a 4" pump or a jet pump.

Back in the 60’s and 70’ we use to sell a lot of Reda pumps. They had a 3” we called a “Pencil Pump”. We mostly used these to replace windmills, as they normally had 3” casing.
 
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