Well pump replacement - no water

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by DYIWeller, Jan 17, 2013.

  1. DYIWeller

    DYIWeller New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    Had water the night before, and this yesterday morning I have no water.


    Descriptions of Well and House below:
    Well switch set @ 30 - 50 psi
    static water 15 feet
    well depth 240 feet
    1.5 HP, 10 GPM pump
    Measured voltage all the way to well head, but no AMPs were measured.
    The electrical power is shut- off to pump now.

    My well pump gave out, or a crimped wire problem?


    Questions: Should I pull pump prior to ordering well pump?
    Can I pull the pump with a cherry picker (engine hoist)?

    I'm sure I will have more questions.

    Thanks for your comments, and help.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2013
  2. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,977
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    If your static water level is 15 feet down from the top, then you don't need that much HP. Something doesn't add up.
  3. craigpump

    craigpump Member

    Messages:
    941
    Location:
    ct
    How old is the pump?

    Has it been short cycling against a water logged tank?

    Did it trip the breaker?

    Probably the pump and / or wire is the problem, but you really need to ohm out the wire between the well & house and then ohm out the wire downhole to see if there are shorts to ground and to determine if there is continuity through the wire & motor. Without ohming out the pump & wire you are shooting in the dark so to speak.

    I don't think you want to pull sch 80 with a cherry picker, see if a local plumbing supply house will rent you an Up Z Dazy when you buy the pump & new wire
  4. DYIWeller

    DYIWeller New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    What would be a good pump size/model? should pump height change?

    7 years old pump.

    Yes, it would cycle on and then off. when the toilet flushed. not sure if the tank was water logged.:confused:

    No, breaker trip.

    this test is done after I pull out the pump? or do this testing before?
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2013
  5. craigpump

    craigpump Member

    Messages:
    941
    Location:
    ct
    You need to ohm the system out with the pump & wire still in the well to get initial readings, then ohm the pump when it's out of the well.

    Seven years isn't very old, we pulled a Goulds the other day that has been in since 1986.

    If the pump was cycling on & off every time you ran water, the tank is probably water logged. Water logged tanks will eventually kill a pump motor.
  6. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,466
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    I would stay with a 1.5 HP, 10 GPM pump. If the water level pulls down close to 240', you will need the 1.5 HP. Some pumps last longer but, pumps are designed to last 7 years, and most will average this amount of time. If the pump was short cycling, like on/off every time a toilet is flushed, you are lucky it lasted that long. Regular cycling causes the tank bladder to burst, then a waterlogged tank will shortly take out the pump. The overload is in the motor, which is why you can't tell it is tripped. But it you have the correct voltage going to the pump with no amperage, the overload in the motor is tripped, or you have a broken wire down hole. I would ohm it out to make sure, but you probably won't know until you pull it up so you can see what happened.
  7. DYIWeller

    DYIWeller New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    Initial ohms reading of 12 guage wire to pump.
    Green and Black = 3 plus or minus reading, at 200k setting.
    Green and Red = 12 plus or minus reading, at 200M setting .
    Black and Red = 1 or no continuity (open circuit).
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2013
  8. DYIWeller

    DYIWeller New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    Additional Well Information

    Estimated electric load based on a 1.5 hp motor, 75 degree insulation, is at approximately 0.785 .

    Old pump is 7 years old, and has probably reached it time limit or closed too .
    Then, I should order new pump with new well wire, to replace old pump. or should i wait till I pull the old pump and well wire out, and inspected and tested?


    Thanks comments, and help.
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
  9. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,977
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    I'm not really understanding why the pump needs to be set so low with that much recovery but then I'm not a pumpman. Just seems like a lot of pump, a lot of wire, and a lot of pipe.
  10. DYIWeller

    DYIWeller New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    When I met with the well man 7 years ago. He mentioned for this area, he had set plenty of wells, and at 120 to 140 deep well casing, there was plenty of water for house hold and lawn.
    My thinking, 7 years ago, was at a deeper level, there would be fresher water, and less contaminates.

    Question:There is a potential of the water line from well head to water storage tank in house, FREEZing
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013
  11. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,977
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    You don't say where the casing ends and the rock bore begins. 1 HP and bigger pumps like to have cooling flow past the motor. If the motor is set low, it may be top fed and so not get as much cooling.
  12. DYIWeller

    DYIWeller New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    Question: I called around, for an Up Z Dazy . No one has any. Any suggestions on pulling up well pipe?
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013
  13. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,977
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Then regardless of where the pump is set, it will be the same water because it all comes in from the bottom.
  14. craigpump

    craigpump Member

    Messages:
    941
    Location:
    ct
    A Red Lion pump? I'm afraid to ask who sells that...........

    You had better get a new tank along with the new pump or you will be pulling the pump again soon. Size the tank so the pump will have at least a one minute run time when it comes on. I prefer two minutes run time.

    To promote longer pump life, put a sleeve over the pump to pull water across the motor. Better cooling = longer life.

    A 3 wire pump will have no advantages over a 2 wire pump if the lines freeze, you better dig the trench deeper too.
  15. DYIWeller

    DYIWeller New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    A friend of mine had a Red Lion Submersible Well pump installed last year, he seemed to be happy with the pump and he did mention they use Franklin Motors. Are Red Lion pumps of good quality?
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013
  16. craigpump

    craigpump Member

    Messages:
    941
    Location:
    ct
    You're going on three days without water? My wife & kids would have moved out by now!

    Although I have installed a bunch of constant pressure systems and I'm not a big fan of them. I like a large tank and a conventional pump, however I would like to try a CSV if for nothing more than to satisfy my curiosity about how well they work.

    I know nothing about Red Lion pumps, what I do know is that like everything else in life you get what you pay for so spend a bit more money and get a better pump. Goulds has as good a warranty as you can get, too bad they don't use Franklin motors anymore.
  17. DYIWeller

    DYIWeller New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    what pumps have worked for all you?

    I really appreciate all your comments, and assistance, it making realize I'm not ready to tackle this yet.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013
  18. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,977
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    IMHO Franklin today is not the same Franklin of yesterday. I think a lot of pump manufacturers are riding on the Franklin reputation.

    I replaced my Goulds pump with a Grundfos after the wet end wore out. What I looked for was less plastic and more steel in the pump. I am happier with the Grundfos than the Goulds as far as how well it pumps. Mind you the Goulds ate a lot of sand early on so it may not be a fair comparison.

    I don't recall you mentioning whether the pump is hung on steel pipe. That will make a difference in how heavy it will be to lift out. Given that the static level is at 15 feet, it will make it much lighter to lift. Two strong men might be able to lift it by hand. Have you even tried lifting it a foot to see how heavy it is?

    As for constant pressure, forget about the VFD pumps and go with the CSV. And for sure fix the waterlogged tank!! It sounds like neglect got you in this mess.

    For craigpump who said to sleeve the pump, you overlooked the fact that the OP has but a 4 inch casing so, A) the sleeve won't fit, and B) no sleeve is needed provided the pump is in the casing and not top fed in a rock bore.
  19. craigpump

    craigpump Member

    Messages:
    941
    Location:
    ct
    He indicated the pump is on sch 80.

    Yep forgot about the 4" sleeved well.

    Unfortunately the new Grundfos motors are not as reliable as the Franklin units. I installed tons of Grundfos with the Franklin motors years ago and very rarely had any issues.

    Three weeks? I would have to visit my wife at the local Holiday Inn!!!
  20. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,977
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Ja, but one can get galvanized steel pipe in sched 80.

    I got a 5 year warranty on my Grundfos so another 3 1/2 years left on it. Time will tell how long it lasts.
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