Well Bacteria fix

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by 4me2see, Jul 8, 2011.

  1. 4me2see

    4me2see New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Ontonagon MI
    Take 6 to 12 feet of 1 inch stainless tubing or pipe. Wrap its length with 1/4 inch soft copper tubing !/4 inch apart tightly to the stainless steel. Tie it secerley with heavy copper wire.. In water the copper will have a electrolysis to the stainless. That will kill bacteria. I have been using this for over 5 years. It was developed by me and a smart friend of mine from Canada. Mr. Mike Monett. We call it the Pat and Mike bacteria Killer. You may leave it in your well forever. No more flashing the well.
  2. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    How did you test bacteria before and after the installation and what was count?
  3. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Messages:
    4,135
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Do you have a website where I can buy one and send you money ?

    What type of bacteria does it kill ?


    DonL
  4. 4me2see

    4me2see New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Ontonagon MI
    Never had a test. The water taste good and no oder. It was real bad- Iron bacteria. It does not require power From the internet copper is efective against all bacteria. My partners e mail is --jku-8m35@binsap.--- Mike Monett.
  5. 4me2see

    4me2see New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Ontonagon MI
    It should kill all bacteria. I had Iron Bacteria. I do not sell it but sombody should. It is Mike Monetts and mines gift to mankind His email is---jku-8m35@binsap.
  6. Mike Monett

    Mike Monett New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Ontario
    More Info on Well Bacteria Fix

    Hi, I'm the Mike in the Pat and Mike team. I'll try to explain a bit
    more of how the bacteria killer works.

    Iron and sulphur bacteria are small living organisms that naturally
    occur in soil. They combine iron or manganese, present in well
    water, and form unpleasant a slimy coating on everything. For those
    who understand a bit of chemistry, here is a description of one
    process.

    The slime is caused by iron bacteria converting the ferrous iron,
    Fe2(+), to ferric iron, Fe3(+). The equation is

    Fe2(+) + H(+) + 1/4O2 --> Fe3(+) + 1/2H2O

    The ferric iron (Fe3(+)) then reacts with water to form insoluble
    iron hydroxides (Fe(OH)3) as shown here:

    Fe3(+) + 3H2O --> Fe(OH)3 + 3H(+)

    Similar reactions can also occur with manganese and sulphur. More
    information is here:

    http://www.webs.uidaho.edu/gwemo/reports/Iron_Bact_Remediation.pdf

    For those who prefer word descriptions, here is a description from
    Wikipedia:

    In the management of water-supply wells, iron bacteria are bacteria
    that derive the energy they need to live and multiply by oxidizing
    dissolved ferrous iron (or the less frequently available manganese).

    The resulting ferric oxide is insoluble, and appears as brown
    gelatinous slime that will stain plumbing fixtures, and clothing or
    utensils washed with the water carrying it. They are known to grow
    and proliferate in waters containing as low as 0.1mg/l of iron.

    However, at least 0.3 ppm of dissolved oxygen is needed to carry out
    oxidation."

    Common effects of excess iron in water are a reddish-brown color,
    stained laundry and poor tasting coffee. An equally common but less
    well understood problem is infestation of water supplies with iron
    bacteria. Iron bacteria are a natural part of the environment in
    most parts of the world. These microorganisms combine dissolved iron
    or manganese with oxygen and use it to form rust-colored deposits.

    In the process, the bacteria produce a brown slime that builds up on
    well screens, pipes, and plumbing fixtures.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_bacteria

    The usual method to control well bacteria is by shock chlorination.

    Here are some examples of the procedure:

    http://www.prairiewaternews.ca/back/vol2no2/v22_st7.html

    http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex1142

    www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/water/dwg/febact.htm

    www.gov.ns.ca/nse/water/docs/droponwaterFAQ_IronBacteria.pdf

    Unfortunately, chlorination has a number of problems. It is
    time-consuming, it can leave an objectionable residue in the system
    that may take weeks to dissipate, and it does not always work very
    well.

    Pat has been using a different method for many years. It consists of
    silver coins attached to a copper pipe. He used it to keep his well
    clear of bacteria, and he posted the techique to a forum where I
    spotted it.

    It was clear the technique works due to a small voltage that is
    generated when the silver and copper are in contact and placed in a
    conductive solution.

    The Galvanic Table from MIL-STD-889 shows that copper is positive
    with respect to silver:

    http://l-36.com/corrosion.php

    The metals that are closer to the top of the list are positive, or
    anodic with respect to metals closer to the bottom of the list.

    Copper is number 55 in the list, and silver is number 90. This means
    the copper will act as the anode and silver as the cathode. This
    means only copper ions will go into solution, and not the silver.

    We know that copper and silver electroysis has been used for decades
    to deposit the ions in swimming pools and jacuzzis. Here is one
    example:

    http://www.almostheaven.net/aho/ionizers.htm

    Instead of a dc voltage that is generated from the contact
    potential, these systems apply AC to the electrodes. This means the
    silver and copper will alternate and become the anode on each half
    cycle, so both ions will enter the solution.

    Unfortunately, they do not tell you that the silver ions will
    quickly combine with various substances in the water and form
    insoluble compounds. For example, silver hydroxide, silver chloride,
    and silver sulphide are highly insoluble and have very little
    antibacterial activity. On the other hand, the copper compounds are
    mostly soluble, which leaves the copper ions in solution and
    available to kill bacteria.

    This means we really do not need the silver in the process. It is
    very expensive and does not contribute to the killing power, which
    is due to the copper ions.

    So all we need is a subsitute for the silver to act as the cathode
    in the electrolysis process. After a bit of searching, we quickly find that
    most varieties of stainless steel should work as well as silver, and
    would be much less expensive. For example, see the "Galvanic Series
    Of Metals And Alloys", at

    http://www.mcnallyinstitute.com/04-html/4-1.html

    This leads directly to the bacteria killer for wells. There is such
    a huge variation in well size and depth that it is not feasible to
    try to make a commercial product. So there is no web site describing
    it, and no place to buy the assembly.

    However, it is so simple that one approach would be to take an
    ordinary stainless steel shower curtain rod which is available at
    most hardware stores, and simply wrap copper tubing loosley around
    it. Most hardware stores have a small tool area where they could
    drill a hole in the end to clamp the copper to the rod, and attach a
    nylon rope to lower the assembly into the well.

    If the hardware store cannot do this, maybe a neighbor with an
    electric drill might be able to help. Drilling stainless steel can
    be tricky since the steel will work harden and no drill will be able
    to penetrate it. I use cobalt drills and find them much more
    effective than any other drill. They go through stainless like a hot
    knife through butter, but you still have to apply cutting fluid and
    apply the proper pressure for best results.

    As far as the copper level in the water, it depends on the size of
    the assembly and the amount of water in your individual well. The
    amount of copper ion needed to kill bacteria is very low.

    We need a trace amount of copper in our diet anyway. Here is some
    information on how it is used in the body and what happens when we
    get too much or too little:

    http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm

    However, the natural electrolysis process in this system is very
    unlikely to produce enough copper to present any health problems.

    People with copper plumbing obtain a portion of their daily needs
    from the copper dissolved from the pipes. This is far below the
    level that is needed to develop copper toxicity.

    This system will likely produce a similar amount of copper, and give
    similar results.

    So that's the story on the Pat and Mike Well Bacteria Killer. We
    hereby donate the technology to the Public Domain, and anyone can
    use it without fear of having to pay for licensing.

    Best Regards,

    Mike Monett
  7. rickr

    rickr New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Vermont
    Hi There,

    I am very desperate and quite curious about your stainless rod and copper bacteria elimination solution. My perfect well since 1991 became contaminated with what I believe is iron bacteria as a result of me changing my own pump. I put the 190' of hose and pump on the damp mossy ground to change the dead pump. A month later the water started smelling and tasting swampy and has gotten rpogressivlty worse since. I do not want to be the DIY idiot that further ruins my once perfect well and water. I am told to shock the well and it may or may not take care of the problem. Even them I'm told its a short term solution and I have effectively ruined the well and will have to shock it continually forever more. Your solution however has given me hope. I would be forever grateful for a little more info. Will this work with a well that is alrewady contaminated and smelly, like mine? How far down in the water do I need to put the rod and will the 12 feet work in a 195' well with an average water yield of 40 GPM? Should I first shock the well the try the rod? Does it really work? Its hard to believe you and your friend have come up with this solution and have not tried to capatalize on it like the majority of folks would do...I'm like you however, help where I can! It makes sense as when I had algae growing on my roof, I was told to use copper strips at the peak, which I did and over the period of a summer woth of rain, the algae disappered. Any other help you would care to offer would be most appreciated. Your designer friend Mike does not accept PM's. Cant say as though I blame him. Thanks again, Rick
  8. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Shower rods are chrome plated steel, chrome is very hard to drill, SS not so much. Copper fittings are still thrown into wine barrels with hydrogen sulphide smell. And it works. I do it.

    Lots of 'fake' SS [low level alloy] on the market from our saboteurs in Asia. Notice the rust on your grill. Buy your SS at a metal supply shop
  9. 4me2see

    4me2see New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Ontonagon MI
    It would depend on wow much water you use. You may need more. amount of water or depth does not matter. I found 1" SS tubing in 6 foot lengths on ****. Diameter is not real important as long as it fits in the well. Put it below the low water line so it is always under water. Let it in there forever No need to shock the well. But give it some time. Please let me know how you make out. Pat- I lost Mike Monett. He don't have an email anymore. Good luck.
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