Weak Water Pressure / Pump Runs Continuously

[MountainMan2071]

Hello, I am new to this forum and having a problem with my well. I will give as much info as I can.

My well was drilled almost 9yrs ago. It is 660' deep and 6" diameter. I was told the water level was about 50' from surface. Pump is a submersible 220V but not sure of the HP. A 20 gallon tank was installed but I have since had to replace it. The current tank is a 30 gallon pressurized, with a diaphram. One line in and one line out. A 20A breaker, supplies power to a contact switch, which is controlled by water pressure. I believe it is a 30/50 switch.

I noticed weak water pressure last night while using a outside water hose. I first suspected a leak elsewhere in the system. I checked but found no leaks. I checked the pressure gauge at the tank and it was on 0 psi. I checked for power at the contact switch. I had power going in to the switch and out to the pump. Since the pressure gauge was on 0 psi, the contact swicth was supplying power to the pump continuously. Even though the pump was running, I had weak water pressure.

If the pressure gauge caused the pump to run continuously but the water had no where to go, since the tank was full, what would this do to the pump? Would it damage the pump and cause it to be weak or eventually not work at all?

It seems to be reasonable that my problem is caused by a restricted or weak pump. Unless I'm missing something?

Am I missing something or is a pump replacement in my near future?

I appreciate any help you can give!

PS: I have the breaker turned off so the pump will not run continuously.



Type of pump?
Submersible____X____
Two wire (no control)________
Three wire (control box)______
Wire Size_________ Wire Length________
or
Jet Pump (above ground)_________
One or two pipes down the well____

Size of Pump?
Motor Horsepower?__________
Pump Model #______________
Date Pump Installed____2002______

Pumping from?
Cistern tank___________
Pond, lake, river________
Water Well___X_________
Depth of well__660'________
Depth to water____50'_____
Pump Setting__________
Pipe Size_________"
Drop Pipe Material
PVC________
Steel_______
Poly________

Well Recovery Rate_______gpm
Well Casing Diameter____6___â€
Rock Well__________ Sand Well__________ Other______________
Date Well Drilled____2002________

Well Casing Material
PVC___X_____ Steel_________ Other_________


Pressure Tank?
Bladder or diaphragm tank (one pipe to tank)__________
Size or model of tank_____30_______
Air charge in top of tank, with pump off and water drained____________PSI
(check with car tire gauge)
or
Plain Hydro Pneumatic tank (two pipes to tank, one in and one out)_________
Size of tank________________

Pressure Switch Setting?
On 30, off 50 ___X_____
On 40, off 60_________
Other_______________

Pump Control Method?
Cycle Stop Valve model #_________
Variable speed control #__________
Pump Start Relay (sprinkler timer, no tank)__________
Manually turned on and off____________

Pump Protection
Cycle Sensor_________
Pumptec_____________
Low pressure cutoff switch (lever on side)__________
Other_______________

Filters or Softeners______________
Before or after pressure tank_______
Type of filter___________________
Bypass available________________

Water Used For?
House Use__x_____ Number of baths__2_____ Number of People________
High Flow Showers_______gpm?
Plus/Or
Irrigation with timers________
Irrigation with hoses________
Heat Pump______gpm?


Problems Experienced
No Water_________________
Water only part time________
Water at all times but weak__X___
Air in water_______________
Pressure surging___________
Water Hammer (noise)______
Too Much pressure_________
Other____________________


Pump makes clicking or buzzing sounds________
No Sounds______________
Pressure gauge reading____0____psi
Other____________________________________

Do you have, and know how to use
an Ampmeter and Voltmeter_____Yes_____________

Describe Problem__________________________

 

[Valveman]

My guess is you have a hole in the pipe down in the well. You can verify this by removing the above ground check valve. Without this check valve, which you don't need and only mask this problem, water will flow backwards down the well when the pump is off. Also if you can find the horsepower of your motor, an amp reading would tell you if the pump is running fine or not.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[MountainMan2071]

My guess is you have a hole in the pipe down in the well. You can verify this by removing the above ground check valve. Without this check valve, which you don't need and only mask this problem, water will flow backwards down the well when the pump is off. Also if you can find the horsepower of your motor, an amp reading would tell you if the pump is running fine or not.

The top of the well casing may have a ID tag with the HP on it. When I get home tonight, I will remove the cover and check it.

I have a few questions, so I can make sure I understand how this system works.

At first, I was thinking the gauge was reading pressure in the tank but is it actually reading pressure in the line? As the tank is filled, resistance builds and the pressure increases in the line?

If so, then a leak between the pump and tank, would result in a low to 0 psi reading at the gauge.

I have had above ground pipes bust due to freezing but what would cause it to bust in the well?

 

[Valveman]

It didn't burst in the well. It rusted a hole in the pipe right at the check valve. Two dissimilar metals close together, especially under water will do this. (brass check valve X steel pipe) Wrapping this short section with electric tape will keep it from happening, but very few people know that.

 

[MountainMan2071]

The tag did not have any info on the pump. It did confirm that the well is 660' deep but the casing is only 100'. Is it normal for the casing not to be as deep as the well?

Got home from work too late to do anything else. Top of the case has PVC threaded into steel. Since I still have some water pressure, I don't want to dig any further, until I have a few days off work.

Thinking of making some phone calls and trying to find someone to tackle this job for me. I would hate to disable my water completely, get part way into it, and realize I bit off more than I could chew. I'm so used to fixing everything myself, so calling a repairman is very foriegn to me.

 

[Masterpumpman]

As valve man says, you may have a leak in the drop pipe. However if the water line froze anywhere between the pump and the pressure switch it could have caused the pump to dead head (not shut off) and this could have wore out or burnt out the pump end of your submersible. Since you may have to pull the pump, I'd have the pump end tested. That's cheaper than having to pay for pulling and replacing it again.

 

[MountainMan2071]

Its Fixed!

Since the company that drilled my well turned out to be shady, I did not want to call them for the repair. A family friend recomended a different company. They came out last Thursday. Based on the information I gave them, they agreed the problem was in the well.

According to the repairman, the original installer did everything wrong, except using a good quality pump. It is a Berkley 1.5hp, 10.5 Amp. The pump had a galvanized male adapter threaded into it and the brass check valve was threaded onto the other end of the male adapter. The male adapter had a large hole rusted through and a thin place worn all the way around. I'm lucky the adapter did not break off and drop the pump. The pump was 600' deep. The pipe was 1.25 pvc.

The repairman threaded the pvc directly into the pump, installed the check valve between two pieces of the pvc, and reinstalled all thirty sections of the 20' pipe. They tested the pump pressure before reinstalling it. They also installed a second check valve on the top side of the well cap. Don't really see why it needed this one? Four hours and $900 later. I now have normal water pressure. Although, my water is very dirty for now.

After seeing this job done, I have two conclusions. With the right equipment, I could have completed this job myself. Without it, I could not. I would need an apparatus built about 25' high to support a large pulley, run a winch cable through the pulley, and have a clamp to hold the pipe as I took each section loose. I have the pulley, winch, and plenty of lumber for the apparatus. A scaffolding system, which I have, should work to support the pulley also. All I would need is the pipe clamp.

The next time I have a problem inside the well, I will most likely repair it myself.

While telling the repairman that I replaced my tank about four years ago, he suggested installing an extra tank. He said if one had a problem, the other could still supply water pressure. He also said you can't have a tank that is too big.

When I replaced my old 20 gallon tank, I called the tank manufacture to see if they suggested a particular size. They said the size tank depended on the size pump. Didn't make sense to me but I figured the company that makes the tanks should know what he was talking about. Since I didn't know my pump size at that time, I chose a 36 gallon tank. If I need to replace my tank again, I will get the biggest size that will fit under my house. Since the repairman suggested an extra tank, I'm considering installing the bigger tank now.

What do you guys think of dual or multiple tanks?

Thanks for the info!

 

[Valveman]

10 cents worth of electric tape on that galv bushing would have kept this problem from happening in the first place. Now you have a check valve 20’ above the pump and another one at the top of the well, both of which will cause water hammer on pump start, if not now, then soon. I would have put the check valve right at the pump and taped up any metal fittings between the pump and PVC drop pipe. I would also not increase the tank size or add an additional tank. I would use a Cycle Stop Valve instead. But hey, what do I know. I was only able to tell you what the problem was, exactly where it was located, and how to fix it from a thousand miles away over the Internet. The pump men standing right there still haven’t got it right. So I would listen to them and buy another useless tank.

 

[MountainMan2071]

Sounds like it still is not done the best way. That is why I normally fix things myself. The original installer and the repairman, are the only two local well drillers. Looks like I will definitely be better off making future repairs myself.

The reason I originally wanted a larger tank and still do, is so I would have a larger capacity of water when the power is out. We have power outages frequently, especially in the winter. I have a generator that will run the pump but a larger tank would reduce the need to use it. The cycle stop valve looks like a good product but wont help with this.

Thanks

 

[LLigetfa]

The pump men standing right there still haven’t got it right.

Don't hold back Cary, tell us how you really feel. Old school pump men are set in their ways.

I have a 30 gallon tank not for the reserve capacity but rather for the retention time the iron filter needs. 5 gallons of drawdown doesn't go far in a power failure and my emergency genset won't run the pump. For me, a bigger tank would just mean suffering with low pressure longer.

 

[Valveman]

I wish there were schools out there where a pump installer could go to learn where to put 10 cents worth of tape, and where not to put check valves. The only schools available are mandatory rules and regs schools that only teach how to fill out paperwork for well reports and where to send the money for your license renewal. The only other classes are put on by manufacturers to show the products that make them the most profit, and cost you extra.

A pressure tank for water storage doesn’t work very well. If you knew the power was going to quit, you could make sure the tank was pumped up to 60 PSI before you went to sleep. Without knowing when the power will go off, you have a 50/50 chance that the tank will be empty. Murphy’s Law says the pressure gauge will always be reading 42 when the power goes off, and the tank is essentially empty. You would be better off having 10 gallons of water in buckets to pour in the back of the flusher when the power is out. At least this way you would know there is 10 gallons in the garage when you need it.

If you reduce the air pressure in the tank from 38 to 18 PSI, then you would have a little water stored in the pressure tank below 40 PSI. Although this will greatly reduces the normal draw down of the tank between 40 and 60 PSI. And it will overstretch the bladder in the tank, shortening its useful life.

A CSV will still help make sure the tank is always full. Because the CSV will not let the pump stop running until you have finished using water and the tank is refilled. Without a CSV the pump just cycles on and off WHILE you are using water. So there is a very good chance the tank will not be full when you go to sleep.

Then what happens when the power is off for more than a few hours? A generator is the only real means of having water when the power is off. Turn on the generator, take a shower, fill the bath tub and all the buckets, and turn off the generator.