Wayne and Flotec pumps quality?

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Raucina

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e bay has many Re-furbished submersibles and new Flotec pumps with control box for 139$ and up. Way south of half normal costs and perhaps less than the Franklin motors that seem to be on them.

Since some are refurbished we can guess that there is some issues with them or that they sell at big box stores and grandma can't get it in the hole so she brings it back to the no question return counter....[?]

I dont think Franklin has a lesser quality motor in its lineup - so maybe its a source for replacement motors?

Anyone with a Wayne pump down the hole for a few years?
 

Cass

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Flotec is junk in my NSHO. I would never go with a refurbished pump unless it was done by the Mfg. and then I would still wonder.
 

Speedbump

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Ten Four Cass.

When Grandpa, put 115 volts to the (230 volt pump motor) for 3 days and couldn't figure out why the pressure wasn't as good as before so he brought it back, the motor now is in reality 6 years old already. Or the opposite in the case of a 1/2hp motor which can be purchased in 115 or 230 volts. He tripped the overload a couple dozen times by inserting 230 volts to the 115 volt motor. Well, it's bad, let's take it back to the big box store. No questions asked.

With submersible pumps, refurbished means they scraped the mud off the pump before putting it back in the box.

bob...
 

Pumpman

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Took a tour of the Sta-Rite factory a couple of years ago. One section of the factory is where they tear down pumps that were returned for warranty. By far, most of the pumps were marked Craftsman or Flotec, which are made by Sta-Rite.
Alot of these pumps are returned because they don't perform as well as the "old" pump did. No one tells customers of the big box stores that these pumps are downrated. The other problem with alot of them was, of course, the voltage mis-match.
Ron
 

Speedbump

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Great stuff Ron,

I always wondered how much they did to the pumps that went out under other names. What did they do to downrate them Ron?

bob...
 

Raucina

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Maybe guys, the rebuild shop was full of flotecs and crafstman pumps because they are the ones sold to the weekend joes that dont have a clue to the craft of making them work right [or sta-rite] for a long time. Maybe the guts are essentially the same and its a user influenced failure.

Seems like 115 volts on granpas 220 pump wouldnt even start it. And for the other way around, the franklin motors have internal overloads that are quite reliable.

If they are downrated, its not in the motor . If you need a 1/2 hp pump you can still buy a 3/4 there for 149 bucks....again, less than the motor cost alone.

Its a factory "rebuild" in a new box and they give a new warranty.

I have at least 20, 9 volt rebuilt dewalt drills working in my shop full time - they sell for 69$ on Amazon with two new batterys. One new battery
costs 42$ - so I stopped buying batterys long ago - now they come for about half price with a drill and charger thrown in for free. Just might work that way with pumps too.

I would like to see the 150$ model and the 400$ pump head disassembled side by side on a bench and have an expert evaluate each part for quality.

Lets all write to consumers reports - that would be a great read.
 
R

Rancher

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No I'm not doing an evaluation on big box store pumps vs "good" pumps, besides I'm very happy with my Craftsman (Sta-rite) or Teel pumps with the franklin motors, and as you have probably heard I cycle them 600 times a day. I thought it was the wear and tear of start up that was bad for a pump, and not heat.... Bob?

Rancher
 
R

Rancher

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Raucina said:
I have at least 20, 9 volt rebuilt dewalt drills working in my shop full time
I buy a lot of dewalt and others as "factory reconditioned", especially weed wackers... I think if they went back to the factory, at least someone actually made it work before sending it out the door...

Rancher
 
V

vaplumber

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Youve got to remember the manufacturer spoken differences in refurbishes/rebuilt vs remanufactured. Refurbished or rebuilt means they open the unit and if they find a stuck or broken impeller they replace the failed part only. Remanufactured means they use the original case or housing only and all internal parts are replaced with new. For quality diff, stay with a high quality name brand. The cheaper products are cheaper for a reason. Lower quality alloys in the metal parts. Recycled materials in the plastic or poly wear parts. Even the motors may be seconds. Maybe they drew a half amp more current on startup when inspected. Who knows what they do. Take 2 brands from one manufacturer and weigh on part from both on a gram level scale. I bet the cheaper product will have lighter impellers, or other parts compared to the name brand. Many years of experiance and work have shown me that a $200 pump will only last half as long as a $600 pump. I dont do pumps any more, so no, I have nothing to gain by this statement.
 

Speedbump

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I thought it was the wear and tear of start up that was bad for a pump, and not heat.... Bob?

The rapid starting not only damages parts, but the up to 5 times the running amps required to start a pump motor is what builds the heat. And if you turn it off again before letting it cool or simply running it long enough to let the water going over the motor cool it, the heat just keeps mounting. Then the windings break down and all the smoke excapes rom the motor. You do know; you can't put the smoke back in don't you??:)
 

Raucina

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These are sealed motors so the smoke stays in - they should last forever until it springs a leak and lets the smoke out.

Really, though, I had a Franklin motor that must have cycled a billion times on overload - internal motor switch - until I throttled it down to stop it. So the heat issue takes time to kill.

Moral of this story, perhaps - cheap pump ok on shallow wells easy to pull by hand with light duty use and big tanks [or inside cisterns]. DEEPer holes with high use and or grit get the expensive pumps.

The 2 or 3 hundred dollar difference can mean an awful lot to America's unseen poor hiding out in the woods.
 

Pumpman

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Speedbump,
Knowing that Craftsman pumps were made by Sta-rite, I went to the local pump house looking for an impeller for a Craftsman 1 hp pump. In searching the numbers on the impeller itself, it cross referenced with a Sta-rite 3/4 hp impeller. In other words, the same impeller was used in a Craftsman 1 hp pump, that Sta-rite uses in it's own 3/4 hp pump. Out of curiosity, every time I replaced a Craftsman pump with a Goulds or AY McDonald (both of which I represent) I would tear the Craftsman down to check the impeller number. I found the same thing. When I was at the Sta-rite factory, a discussion came up about how much big box stores affect our business. I mentioned my findings during that meeting, and was told that it was correct. One other pump contractor mentioned that he had noticed the same thing.
It's apparent, as you tour the factory, that the quality control for Sta-rite products is much more in depth than that for the Craftsman or Flotec products. They sure as heck don't come off of the same production line. Of course, you don't get to see the different metal alloys being manufactured, but I would have to agree with VAPlumber, I'm sure there is a difference.
If any pump contractor ever gets the chance to tour a pump factory, they should do it. It's amazing. I used to be a factory rep for Johnston Pump Company. To see a machine turn out an impeller that measures 56" across, see the pump assembled and installed, and watch it pump tens of thousands of gallons a minute will make a pump man wet himself!!
Ron
 

Speedbump

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That's what I thought Ron, different everything for the cheaper models. I know the Sears pumps like the MSE, SSJ, ANL, ANE etc. are pretty much the same pump. On the MSE the backpressure control bolts on as opposed to screwing into the casting. There are other differences too that don't amount to too much. They just try to make their stuff more proprietary. When it comes down to the plastic pumps, I don't think you will see them sold by too many pump guys, so I have no idea what they do differently to them. I do know I won't work on one and I don't suppose many of us will due to the fact they are basically throw away pumps. Then there is the parts issue.

Really, though, I had a Franklin motor that must have cycled a billion times on overload - internal motor switch - until I throttled it down to stop it. So the heat issue takes time to kill.

As for the cheap pumps being good for some people and lasting as long as the good units. That is an experience thing and from my experience the cheap units don't hold up. Cycling the hell out of a motor doesn't do it any good. You can say all you want about this one and that one doing it for many years, I have seen a few do the same thing. But in reality, it's the exception not the rule.

bob...
 
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