Wax versus no-wax rings

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Claythrow

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When I bought my foreclosure there was a smell in the bathroom. Pulled the toilet & it had a "no-wax" ring installed that had somehow begun leaking. Don't know why or how, just stating what I found. I don't know what brand it was only that it was black & a bit more towards a foam than a solid rubber. Kind of solidified my opinion just to continue to use wax.
 

John28

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Not sure what brand the Black one was?, but the Sani-Seal are Bright Green. I was very skeptical of using a sani-seal ring, but in certain situations, I believe they are better than wax? I redid a basement bathroom where the closet flange coming through the concrete was angled from front to back a 1/4 in. when the house was built way before I was there. I know the previous toilet was a pain sealing with this tilted closet flange, with wax. Rather than busting out the closet flange and setting it plumb, figured I'd try the Sani-Seal. Worked great and saved me a lot of aggrivation in this situation, vs. sealing with wax or busting concrete and redoing the flange. Just coated the seal with plumbers grease and set, and it's been over a year with no issues, definitely worth it with this situtation, as they do work well.
 
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Gary Swart

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Let's look at it from a different approach. Any of these wax less seals will work just fine, but here what you need to consider. Are you planning to remove the toilet soon or often? If so, then wax less is great because they are reusable. If you figure this is a set it and forget it for 30 years, then take you pick of wax or no wax. Wax rings are a one shot deal, but are very effective if left unmoved.
 

rbeck

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I just tried the Danco ("Perfect Seal" at Home Depot). I have installed my share of toilets. This product simply will not work if the flange is higher than level with the floor. The rubber seal at full compression is still 7/8" tall. So even if the flange is level with the floor, if your toilet bowl does not have 7/8" height clearance inside, the toilet will not sit on the floor surface, but rock around on the rubber seal. They should say on the box "Only for installations where the flange is at or below the finished floor surface." As is, they generate returns of at least 25% and you can't really re-use these things once the wax has been squished out. I use wax for any flange at or above the floor surface.
 

Jarod Strain

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I just tried the Danco ("Perfect Seal" at Home Depot). I have installed my share of toilets. This product simply will not work if the flange is higher than level with the floor. The rubber seal at full compression is still 7/8" tall. So even if the flange is level with the floor, if your toilet bowl does not have 7/8" height clearance inside, the toilet will not sit on the floor surface, but rock around on the rubber seal. They should say on the box "Only for installations where the flange is at or below the finished floor surface." As is, they generate returns of at least 25% and you can't really re-use these things once the wax has been squished out. I use wax for any flange at or above the floor surface.

Apologies, I really really hate bumping the thread this old. However, since people still use these threads as reference I feel it's important to point out danco has updated the instructions with their perfect seal product.
The product hasn't changed, but people did not realize there is a black plastic ring in the center of the ring which can be removed to allow additional compression.
Also danco clearly says that this ring is not intended in situations where the flange is more than 1/2 inch above the surface.
As most of us should already know if you're flange is that high somebody didn't do it right to begin with.
I'm trying one of these out myself, they've been around for a while now.
My building is over a hundred years old and there's a little more wiggle in the floor than I'd like, so every time I've used a wax seal I get leaking within 2 years. I'm hoping this does a little better.
 

Reach4

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I just looked up the directions on the Hydro Seat. It seemed to say to leave out the blue part if your flange was higher.
 

SAS

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I have had great success using the Korky wax less seal on all 4 toilets that we replaced in our house. As a DIYer, I am not great at placing the toilet in the precise spot on the first try, and if you have to move it to adjust the shims or to straighten it out you run the risk of compromising the wax ring. I had bought another one for the first install (I think it was the green Saniseal), but it was too thick. The Korky comes with two inserts that can be used singly or together and very clear instructions on what to use based upon the height of the flange relative to the floor. The Korky is slightly more expensive than the other waxless rings, and much more expensive than wax, but if you're not a professional it makes the job much easier for us DIYer.
 

Mickey Meacham

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Agreed. Korky gives you a third option Fluidmaster doesn't. If you buy 2 Korky's you get a 4th option, as the 2 thin rings together are ever so slightly smaller than the thick ring.
 

Shubox56

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I see that this thread was started years ago, but certainly still relevant today for many of us that would prefer to go waxless.

I just laid a floatig LVP floor which resulted in the flange being 1/16" below the finished flooring. That said, will call it basically even with the floor surface. I would rather try an innovative solution rather than stacking wax rings. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with ring stacking, it's tried and true. Regardless, I'm bumping this thread hoping to get an updated opinion from those who have actually tried and tested the various products. Is there a best in class in this group?
 

JerryR

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My 5 year old saniseals have performed well so far. I recently had a drain line clog that required the plumber remove the furthest toilet and run a 60 ft snake down the line. He was reluctant to pull the toilet because he didn’t have a wax ring left in his truck.

I said pull the toilet and I’ll reset the toilet tomorrow myself after getting a new ring. He pulled the toilet and low and behold there was a Saniseal ring that I forgot that installed 5 years prior. It was in good shape and after snaking the line and clearing the clog he installed the toilet using the 5 year old used saniseal.

So from personal experience they last at least 5 years.
 

Jadnashua

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They've discovered some bronze boxes, sealed with beeswax that are over 1000-years old with their contents perfectly dry and intact...wax makes a reliable seal when used as intended!

The hassle is, you need to replace it anytime you remove the toilet as reforming it is messy, and not always reliable. If you like to remove the toilet to repaint, change the wall paper, etc., on a regular basis, or initially during construction, a waxless seal makes sense as it saves time. IT does not save money, as you can probably buy numerous wax rings for the price of one waxless one, but time is money, too.

Terry's practice when one is not thick enough, is to use one with a funnel, and one without...the one with the funnel helps to align the second one, and helps reinforce the assembly so it's harder to blow out if you aggressively ever plunge the toilet. FWIW, most people may never need to remove a toilet except to replace it during a remodel. Wax has its place, and, there's less plastic to deal with.
 

Shubox56

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Thanks guys. Your opinions are appreciated.

Having lived through the failure of 2 wax rings that resulted in the rotting of the subfloor in 2 different bathrooms, I'm game to try something new. That said, the failure wasn't due to the ring itself, but likely the install 24 years ago --- OR ---really cheap and inefficient toilets which clogged constantly that resulted in aggressive plunging over a 24-year period that slowly damaged the seal.

I'm all about innovative change. It's true that wax has served men well, basically speaking, but so did Kodak's 35 mm film before being replaced by X's and O's (digital). WHO WOULD HAVE THUNK IT! The same will be true in the automotive industry over the next 50 years. Say goodbye to the gas powered combustion engine as we know it. Like wax, these products served us well.

As much as I'm intrigued by the waxless option, I do realize that any rubber or man-made material is subject to fail over time. It's not necessarily a one and done. So will these newfangled rings need to be replaced every 5 to 10 years? Perhaps! But I honestly do not believe that cost is a valid argument for the DIY kind of guy. The waxless option is about the price of a couple cups of fancy coffee at Starbucks, not a biggie IMHO.

I'm just trying to figure out which waxless ring will be the most reliable over the long-haul. :)
 

Jadnashua

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One sad thing about Kodak is that they originated the digital video sensor, but let it go for a song while keeping film tech going. Several people in my family worked at Kodak during the time when things started to go south...poor foresight in management.

Most people don't actually use a plunger properly. It works best to fairly softly get the water going up and down, then while down, do an aggressive upwards pull...that allows the waste that was jammed together when trying to go down, to be pulled back up, with the turbulence get rearranged slightly, and then be able to go down the drain. It's another reason why toilets are designed to have the flange sit on top of the finished floor, not flush or recessed, where it then takes a thicker seal to be successful but open to potential blowout. The other big thing is if the toilet can rock in the slightest...the wax is not resilient like a spring, when it rocks one way, and then back, it can open up a gap in the wax seal. May not be a big issue until you get a clog or backup. When setting the toilet, you MUST ensure that it is rock solid once pushed down onto the seal. Many of the waxless seals can handle a little movement, but they can still fail.
 

Shubox56

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Thanks jadnashua. I think you can add me to the "aggressive plunger" list. I'm sure it played a role.

In addition to selecting a ring, I also need to select a toilet that seldom clogs to pair with a waxless option. Something close to clog-free without taking out a second mortgage. Is there something out there in the 1.28 class that fits the bill?
 

Shubox56

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Jerry R, I ordered a Sani Seal, just 1 of 3 that is needed. I want to feel the product in my hands and do a little testing once I figure out which reasonably priced toilet is close to clog-free. Though I'm sure that clog-free is wishful thinking. ;-)
 

Reach4

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Shubox56

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Fairly realistic IMO. I think maybe a target of less than 0.5 clogs per person-year would be good.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/3-toilets-constantly-clog.93033/#post-670945

Thanks! The Entrada is catching my eye. Right priced for my budget. I wonder how it stacks up against the Kohler and American Standard options. It also seems right sized for my small bathrooms. My current toilets are 12" rough in, 27" depth, and 29" tall. I'm hoping that a slightly larger toilet isn't going to make a meaningful difference visually. Is this truly a great option for less clogs and decent flushing performance?
 

Reach4

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Thanks! The Entrada is catching my eye. Right priced for my budget. I wonder how it stacks up against the Kohler and American Standard options.
Note Entrada, like other Toto 2-piece toilets, does not include a seat.

When replacing a toilet, you want to replace the supply line. You also want to consider replacing the stop valve.
 
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