wax versus no-wax rings

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by dw85745, Jul 3, 2014.

  1. dw85745

    dw85745 Member

    Messages:
    71
    Location:
    Arizona
    I thought I would try and No-Wax ring for the first time.
    There seem to be a lot on the market now since Fernco first came out with one (I believe they were first?)
    The differences in them appear to be:

    Fernco -- requires install on toilet with adhesive sticking to bowl.
    Hence previous installs require through cleaning of bowl bottom.
    Because Fernco tube sticks out, requires toilet to rest on side prior to install.

    Oatey - Like a squishy rubber tire.

    Fluidmaster - Haven't seen one but from description this site appears to be similiar to Fernco.

    Danco - Combination of wax (to flange) and rubber (pressure fit against bowl with no adhesive).
    Wax is contained in rubber sleeve so less mess -- at least prior install.
    I like the Danco design the best, but question whether the pressure fit to bowl will hold or leak during a backup.

    =======================================

    Looking for feedback on the Danco or any of the other No-Wax -- OR -- is wax still the best?
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    1,926
    Location:
    IL
    Add Sani Seal to your list.
  3. johnjh2o1

    johnjh2o1 Plumbing Contractor for 49 years

    Messages:
    1,142
    Location:
    South*East
    Been using wax for over 50 years with no problems. I see no reason to change a proven method.
  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,824
    Location:
    New England
    The Fluidmaster one uses a foam rubber o-ring to seal. The advantage of using a waxless seal is if you think you may need to pull the toilet frequently (say you're doing a remodel, but it's the only toilet in the house!), or if your significant other likes to repaint frequently on a whim...you can pull the toilet and reset it without cleaning up the wax, and reuse the waxless seal. Most of them have a funnel of sorts, and the seal is made lower than when a wax ring is used. This can help if the flange is not at the design height (on top of the finished floor). They may not work well if the pipe is cast iron and pitted, but should work on pvc or abs drain lines.
  5. dw85745

    dw85745 Member

    Messages:
    71
    Location:
    Arizona
    Agree wax has worked great for years, but without looking/trying you never find a better mouse trap.

    Checked Sani-Seal on line. Looks like the Oatey.
    I ruled out the Oatey out (and now Sani-Seal based on picture) because both appear to be just pressure fits on both sides (flange and bowl).
    Unlike a wax seal which because of its "stickyness", I see two leak points instead of one, especially if the air gets out of the rubber tube.

    Still hoping someone has tried the Danco.
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,799
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The Sani-Seal isn't a tube, it's more like a molded rubber seal that's soft. I have a couple I'm trying out.
  7. dw85745

    dw85745 Member

    Messages:
    71
    Location:
    Arizona
    Will be interested in your feedback. I'm going to try Danco next week.
  8. edwardh1

    edwardh1 Member

    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    South Carolina
    me too. Odd some plumbing research group has not done some 3rd party testing on the choices.
  9. Tiburonh

    Tiburonh New Member

    Messages:
    1
    I just used the Danco today as I installed a new Toto Drake II 1gpf. I was coping with a couple problems stemming from a poor installation (not by me!) of the prior toilet: (a) the flange was more than ¾" below the tile floor, and (b) the flange was 11.5" from the wall on one side and 11.25" from the wall on the other. The Danco made the first problem a total non-issue as it can handle below-floor depths of up to 1.5". And it made coping with the second problem trouble free: as I worked to jiggle the base around to make a very tight fit work, I did not have to worry about messing up the seal. Of course only time will tell how this holds up over the long run, but to me it seems like the best of both worlds: the security of a true wax seal combined with the ease and flexibility of installation that comes with something like the SaniSeal
  10. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    1,926
    Location:
    IL
    I found that you are referring to the Danco "Perfect Seal". http://www.danco.com/Products/Toilet-Parts/Toilet-Seals

    Looks like it depends on the toilet output to fit the seal,since no wax is there to conform the toilet to the seal.

    shows that the extender is an optional piece used if the flange is deeper.

    I see Korky has a wax-free entry also:
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
  11. jiminindiana

    jiminindiana New Member

    Messages:
    1
    This is a good question, and I hope people with knowledge will pursue it over time. A Toto I installed six years ago (the first toilet I've ever installed, the second being a Toto in the 1/2 bath I did later the same day) was smelling the past few weeks. I had a plumber come, though I suspected the only thing it could be was the wax ring. When he pulled the toilet up, the wax ring was in terrible shape, not just a little distorted. He didn't look surprised; he's probably seen it all. But I thought back to when I installed it, and was reading the instructions carefully on what not to over-tighten. It seems they emphasized not making it super-tight to the floor, so I didn't. An electrician came along (working in my house at the time), noticed he could move it (and did so, side to side), and advised I tighten it down to take out play. I wondered today about how his movement affected the wax ring, but on the other hand, that doesn't explain why it worked well for six years. Seems like the no-wax could work out better for amateurs.
  12. SteveW

    SteveW DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,052
    Location:
    Omaha, NE

    The Korky one looks good - simple, adaptable to different flange heights.
  13. SHR

    SHR Member

    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I use the Sani Seal whenever it is appropiate. I leave the job confident there will not be leaks from the seal, ever. I coat both the top and bottom of the Sani Seal with silicone lubricant so it does not bind and deform during installation. Never had one fail yet. (of course since I put that in writing i am sure I will have a fail soon!)

    If the flange is raised above the floor too much the Sani Seal will not be a good choice because it does not compress enough for the toilet to sit on the floor. Lots of shimming needed. In this case I use a standard wax ring instead.
  14. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,824
    Location:
    New England
    You get one chance to position your toilet when you use a wax ring. Moving it any direction except down can ruin the wax ring, and should be a flag that it needs to be pulled and the wax ring replaced. Once the wax compresses, it is not a spring, and moving it laterally or the toilet rocking can break the seal. The resilient waxless seals have a slight advantage here, and offer the advantage that they are reusable should you want to remove the toilet to say paint behind it.
  15. Chad Schloss

    Chad Schloss Member

    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    USA
    I've used the oatey one on one install where I was replacing a toilet, and it had two stacked wax rings on it, due to the flange being below the finish tile floor. I tried wax, couldn't get a good seal I was comfortable with, the wax shifted, what a mess. The oatey one went on next, and it's been installed trouble free for 5 or so years now, no issues.
  16. dw85745

    dw85745 Member

    Messages:
    71
    Location:
    Arizona
    I tried the Danco 'Perfect Seal" and could Not get it to work in my situation.

    FWIW:
    1) Running a straight edge on the bottom of the bowl by the horn and measuring from this straight edge to the bottom of the bowl, I have 9/16 in which to insert the flange and the seal.
    2) I'm using an Oatey "Twist and Set" ABS Flange that rests on top of a tile floor.
    3) The toilet installs correctly without the seal.
    4) The seal installs per Danco instructions
    5) The seal (itself) creates a bump or rise that is greater than 5/8 from the finished floor when it is installed on top of the Oatey flange. This bump is located between the plastic ring which rests on the flange and the part of the seal which goes over the toilet horn and which is pressed down into the hole (soil pipe) of the flange.
    6) Because of this bump, I could Not get the toilet to rest on the floor.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2014
  17. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    1,926
    Location:
    IL
    You should not have used the blue adapter. See
    0:45.
    I don't know if you did or not.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2014
  18. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,074
    Location:
    Maine
    I see no point in changing from wax. It's worked for a hundred years or so and will continue to work for the next hundred should basic toilet design remain the same
    johnjh2o1 likes this.
  19. dw85745

    dw85745 Member

    Messages:
    71
    Location:
    Arizona
    Reach4: The blue adapter was NOT used. IMHO there is a minimum -- which Danco does NOT state in their literature (I even called and emailed Danco prior to use and was assured it would work at 5/8 inch). While I like the seal, I would not consider it when the distance from the finished floor (as measured by a straight edge) to the bottom of the bowl underside is less than 1 (one) inch.

    Tom Sawyer: FWIW , for this install I went with the old tried and true wax ring.
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