wax ring with or without "funnel"

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by edwardh1, May 26, 2014.

  1. edwardh1

    edwardh1 Member

    Messages:
    99
    Location:
    South Carolina
    have seen two youtube videos showing wax ring replacement where the youtube "person", said dont use a wax ring with a funnel on it cause it wont seat in the floor flange and tries to ride up>

    What do the pros use?
    The funnel I thing he referrs to is the small usually black horn or water diverter.
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,005
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I wonder if that was his first install of a toilet.

    A lot depends on the flange you have, and whether it's on top of the finished flooring, or below.

    I would say that 95% of the time, for the last forty years, I have used both a non-horn, and a horned wax in combination to set toilets. Most of the installs, at least in the Seattle area require either two wax rings, or a thicker wax ring. It's the rare 5% that would work with one wax ring. But then we do this for a living, and haven't had time to make our video.

    [​IMG]

    Our "install kit" that we sell.

    You can dry set the bowl without wax to see if the floor needs shimming. Then pull the bowl back up. If the flange is lower than the finished flooring, we set one regular wax on the closet flange (floor) and set the wax with horn on top of that. Then we pick up the bowl, and set it down on the wax (floor)
    You should feel compression as the wax squishes down.
    Last edited: May 26, 2014
  3. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,853
    Location:
    New York, NY
    And you can see from Terry's kit that he uses a good-quality closet bolt set that has two nuts and two washers per bolt. This is because pros like him will use one nut and one washer to mount the bolt to the flange (not those cheap plastic stander-upper things), then use the other washer and nut to secure the toilet to the standing-up bolt.
  4. edwardh1

    edwardh1 Member

    Messages:
    99
    Location:
    South Carolina
    I was just curious.

    - why are 95% of seattle flanges so low? -extra flooring installed?

    -I have a plumber coming to change out two toilets wax rings at moms house- 1958 kohler or amer std, toilets have 4 hold downbolts onto the floor. history lesson please , when and why did the industry move from 4 bolts to two? was it a technical change or just lets make it cheaper?
  5. nhmaster3015

    nhmaster3015 Master Plumber

    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    The granite state
    Must be a local thing. We generally get away with a single wax ring and rarely use one with a horn.
  6. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,853
    Location:
    New York, NY
    It's really only two "holddown bolts" (closet bolts) on those toilets. Those are the two connected to the flange just like today. The other two "bolts" on your toilets are really screws into the floor.
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,641
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    The four "bolts" were a vestige from the days of the "washdown" toilets which had more "china" in front of the outlet so the used the front screws to retain it. They were not necessary with the reverse trap bowls and were discontinued about the 60s.
  8. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,005
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    In the Seattle area, the closet flange is installed during framing.
    When the roof is installed, and the home has been dried out, they come back and install 5/8" underlayment for the vinyl. Now the flange is lower than the finished flooring.
    It takes two wax rings.

    You can use one, and keep replacing the floor, and have that nice musty sewer smell from the lack of complete seal. Frankly, that's a poor installation.

    I don't know how plumbers do it in other parts of the US, but all of the plumbers in Washington State do it my way. I've worked in companies with 150 other plumbers, and it was a no-brainer.

    What I find strange, is how many people online that are posting that don't seem to know basic plumbing.
    I couldn't operate a plumbing company if I did the work the way they brag about. My insurance claims would be through the roof.

    Flanges that are above the finished flooring. Many of those that I see were installed before 1940.
    If I'm in a home built before the war, then maybe I'm using a single wax ring, with no horn.

    I see some "plumbers" all over the web, and I have never, ever seen pictures of their work.
    Last edited: May 27, 2014
  9. nhmaster3015

    nhmaster3015 Master Plumber

    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    The granite state
    They will not allow any plumbing/electric or mechanical to be installed here until the building is water tight so we don't run into that whole sub floor issue unless someone later on decides to lay tile and then......we stack wax or use an extension.
  10. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,005
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I can't tell you how many times I roughed in homes before the roof was on. Sometimes knelling on snow as I was running copper low on the wall.
    I had a real nice set of rain gear, and a hard hat that kept my hair dry. Keeping my hands dry was kind of pointless.
    I've done ground works in the rain, with water filling my ditches, and pinning my pipes down to keep them from floating. It would be nice to always work in the dry.
    Now that I'm doing more service, I stay dry.
  11. nhmaster3015

    nhmaster3015 Master Plumber

    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    The granite state
    Me too in the old days but they passed an amendment to the building code here so now no mechanicals can be installed before the home is weather tight and that includes the windows too, not just the roofing. Personally, if the piping is all plastic I can't see where the rain and snow is an issue but I think they just blanketed everything to cover their butts.
Similar Threads: ring without
Forum Title Date
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & What's the most reliable way to go from copper to pex without soldering? Apr 15, 2013
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Copper to pex without soldering? Mar 21, 2013
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Easiest way to move/replace copper laundry supply lines without soldering Apr 2, 2010
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & boring holes in studs without right angle drill Nov 1, 2009
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & pulsatron metering pump for chlorinator is sucking water into solution tank Jul 15, 2014

Share This Page