Wax Ring Question

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by HDFAN1, Dec 20, 2007.

  1. HDFAN1

    HDFAN1 New Member

    Messages:
    34
    When setting a toilet, does it matter whether the wax ring is placed down on the closet flange, and the toilet set down on it, or should the ring be placed on the bottom of the toilet over the "horn"?

    Thanks for your help.
  2. I always set the wax ring on the flange, carefully set the toilet down onto the wax ring.

    I totally avoid the horned wax rings at all cost.
  3. HDFAN1

    HDFAN1 New Member

    Messages:
    34
    Thanks. That's the way I set my new Ultramax today.

    I thought I remembered someone on here saying to put it on the flange, so I did. But the instructions on the wax ring box and the Toto instructions both said to put it on the toilet.
    Seems to me like it would be difficult to do it that way without making a mess.

    And I guess I trust this forum more than the instructions, LOL.


    I didn't use a "horned" ring, and that wasn't what I meant by the "horn". I meant the porcelian horn on the bottom of the toilet.


    I will report on the Ultramax in a few weeks, but first impressions are quite favorable. I do not, however, care for the seat. I think I may use it for a while, and see if I get used to it. If not, I will replace it with a Bemis.

    I'm glad I found this forum, because I would have probably bought the one piece Kohler they sell at Low*s (forget the model).
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 20, 2007
  4. construct30

    construct30 New Member

    Messages:
    590
    Location:
    NorthWest PA
    I like the wax ring with a tail piece for old work, stops the leaks.
  5. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    What leaks are you talking about?
  6. construct30

    construct30 New Member

    Messages:
    590
    Location:
    NorthWest PA
    I like the tail piece in three cases,

    1. When I am changing out a toilet and the ring is low, not to code, a jumbo ring with tail piece no leaks.

    2. Broken ring and the people don't want to pay for a big money fix, stick in a replacement ring and wax ring with tail, no leak.

    3. How to put this properly, Large people move toilets, I don't know how and really don't want to think about it, but a wax ring with tail piece on the ring a little silicone on the outside of the toilet hub, shim any uneven floor tub caulk around the toilet after setting, no leaks.

    I don't like call backs, I work way to cheap and I always back my work a call back really eats in to my income. I have honed my way of doing things over the years and my methods work well for me.

    In areas where high dollar work is abundant maybe you guys can walk away from pita work, low buck repairs, I can't. As the economy and property values continue down hill more of you will learn what some of us are talking about. I know several of us get chewed up at times for our methods and pricing, "but walk a mile".

    It's been a long day.
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,481
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    wax ring

    I have fixed more leaks caused by the wax rings with a "tailpiece" than they have cured. If I cannot repair a damaged flange properly, the toilet is not going to be installed. I do not work "cheap", but I still do not want callbacks, because they eat into my profits just like they do yours. If the toilet is installed properly, then it is not going to move regardless of the size of the user.
  8. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    Putty or silicone?
  9. construct30

    construct30 New Member

    Messages:
    590
    Location:
    NorthWest PA
    I use silicone for about everything, I use putty for nothing anymore, I don't even keep it in my truck. I had a toilet that had been installed bu my dad and brother that leaked, big woman in the house, they lifted it and reinstalled it twice over a period of two years. I finally went there. The toilet had a crack about where the wax ring would hit, from the baking. I rubbed silicone into the crack and put a small bead around where the wax ring would hit, stuck in a wax ring with tail, it been there for eight years problem free, we still work for those people.

    HJ so every time you get a rusted or cracked toilet flange you cut up the floor or ceiling and replace it, you never use a replacement ring? You wouldn't work around here, turning a $60 repair into a $600 or more bill. You would be working at a box store.

    With the growing popularity of sites like this one and all the DIY shows on TV, I'm willing to bet there are more depressed areas like where I live than areas with people willing to shell out the money some of you want. Eric lives in California and works for less per hour than I do and people here have accused him of working for beer money. From TV one would think there is no depression out there, but there is and its spreading, will it hit New York and New Jersy next? Some have said our businesses are a joke, but have you ever worked flipping burgers? One of the reason's for our towns lack of employment is because until UR moved out of the country they were one of our towns biggest employers. Did them a fat lot of good, now they are gone and now we have toilets you have to fill cracks with silicone.
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2007

  10. You just had to, didn't you :p


    Where's packy when you need em
  11. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio

    I don't understand, you pulled the toilet...

    The toilet had a firring crack causing the leak...so you siliconed it shut so it wouldn't leak.

    You then placed a bead of silicone on the bottom of the toilet where it would contact the wax ring when you reset the toilet...this did nothing, unless you used a solvent to remove any wax residue and then let the silicone bead set and cure for 24-48 hours.

    Then you installed a wax ring with horn and reset the toilet.

    I don't get it, what did the wax ring with horn do that a regular wax ring wouldn't have?
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2007
  12. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    If you really believe sites like this and DIY TV shows are what's causing depressed areas, then you are adding to the problem.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't care what you charge or if you do it for free.
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2007
  13. construct30

    construct30 New Member

    Messages:
    590
    Location:
    NorthWest PA
    The sites and shows don't create the depressed areas, they prove they are spreading, more people looking to save a buck. You misunderstood, sorry I was unclear and hard to understand.

    I used a rag and clean pvc primer to clean the botton of the toilet, I always keep a clean can, I use it when nothing else is handy.

    I have never had a toilet leak because of a tail piece, I don't know what you are talking about or why you're having trouble with them. I have picked up leaking toilets with tail pieces that others installed and the tailpiece was smashed off to the side between the ring and toilet hub. Maybe that is your problem, BE MORE CAREFUL.

    I only use the silicone if I repair a leaking toilet or if I find a crack on a new one I'm installing. On a new install when everything is right, I don't use a tail.

    I have not had a leak on a toilet wax ring that I installed for about 10 years, I don't think I'll change what I'm doing.

    My biggest problem is foriegn made toilets with cracks in the tank leaking, at this point. I've taken to putting silicone in them too. Some still leak, and the ones that don't maybe wouldn't have anyway so I don't know if it helps or not.
  14. construct30

    construct30 New Member

    Messages:
    590
    Location:
    NorthWest PA
    I work for a lot of large people, I've seen a lot of broken tanks, toilet rings, bolt slots on the ceremic, seats and leaking wax rings, tailpieces fix the wax ring leaks then something has to break, I don't know why, give it a try.

    You mean to tell me when you reinstall a toilet after ceremic is put down with underlayment, you cut the pipe and bring the flange to the top before the floor is installed, I use one of the nasty extenders to bring the ring up. I use replacement rings on broken or rotten rings is the pipe is fine.
  15. Herk

    Herk Plumber

    Messages:
    547
    Location:
    S.E. Idaho
    There used to be instructions for installing wax rings that showed them on the horn, but I've always set them on the flange. I also learned to form the ring into place with my thumbs (properly wrapped with nitrile gloves).

    I virtually never use the wax ring with the plastic insert because they do, indeed, cause more problems than they solve. I've pulled uncountable toilets that were leaking and the plastic had been forced clear of the wax while setting. I like to follow floor guys who reset the toilet themselves because they always use them. :eek:

    The only time I use the ones with the plastic insert is when there is a large space and an oversized bol-wax is needed, then I usually use the one with the additional support of the foam ring.
  16. construct30

    construct30 New Member

    Messages:
    590
    Location:
    NorthWest PA
    Like I said I only use them for certain things too. I stick in the extenders when there is too big a space now a days. I use the tail when I add the extenders. Have you ever gone to a show and watched a toilet flush into the clear pipes? I don't trust the extenders so I add the tailpiece. I'm not wild about the foam inserts myself.

    You do have to remember that in some cases there is more than one right way to do something. You do what works for you and I'll do what works for me. I back my work and I know when it fails and then I do something about changing it.

    As far as the firing cracks, if you wanted you could always carry a junk wax ring and force some of it into the crack, I use silicone, but I know the wax rings don't always go up in there by themselves, I like to force it in there before I set the toilet. If quality contol were better we wouldn't be having that discussion. I used to take them back, but now that would be hopeless.
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