Watts Floodsafe? Not Very! part 1

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by Redwood, Feb 8, 2009.

  1. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,453
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Look Familiar?

    [​IMG]

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    Oh wait a minute... That was a different house!
  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,491
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    The way it will probably work is that the homeowner's insurance will do the repairs then they will in turn sue EVERYONE who had anything to do with it. Plumber, manufacturer, etc. and let the courts decide who is blameless. In any case, I would not want to be the one who bought/supplied those, since he may be the one on the hook, regardless of who installed them.
  3. Rich B

    Rich B DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    283
    Location:
    New Jersey
    I see these hoses in every big box store. I thought this must be a great idea and installed them in my house. Toilet supply and washing machine.
    As a mechanic by trade and having years and years of experience with fittings and hoses and things of that nature......I believe the hose fitting is weakened during the install somehow.....Maybe it's a poor design and prone to damage or just weak but I have never seen a fitting just fail for no reason......

    I was under the impression that Watts made good quality products ??
  4. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,892
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Watts Floodsafe

    The floodsafe has been causing problems with toilets, dishwashers, washers and lavs

    If you don't mind "resetting" the floodsafe every so often, it wouldn't be too bad.
    As a plumber, I won't install them.
    And if I see one, I remove it.
    It saves a service call later.
    It's just too hard trying to explain to a homeowner why they don't have water.
    Remove the floodsafe, and the conversation is over.

    I get calls from homeowners all the time, wondering why they aren't getting water to a fixture.
    I ask them to look at the tag and read it back.
    Then I tell them to throw it away, and replace with a normal supply.

    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/sho...-safe-review.-Good-or-Bad&highlight=floodsafe

    [​IMG]
  5. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,453
    Location:
    Connecticut
    You can pretty much see the design problem in this post...
    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/sho...ot-Very!-part1&p=184506&viewfull=1#post184506
    This one missed it on quality...

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2010
  6. redantpile

    redantpile New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    allen, tx
    I have had a problem with these also. A few years ago I replaced everything with Floodsafe. It seemed like a good idea. I had done one under the kitchen sink. It felt funny while turning the nut. After about 30 seconds the valve blew off. It looked exactly as Rewood's pictures. I should have saved it, but I didn't. I know that I did not over tighten the nut. At the time, I thought it was just a defect from the factory and was not a common problem. I looked on the internet for others posting the same problem, but found none. So I went back and made sure that none were over tightened, and also looked for a large gap between the nut and valve body. I did find one or too that I was not happy with and replaced them just in case. In fairness, this was about two years ago and none have failed since. However after seeing this post I am not going to take any chances. I'm replacing them today. Here is a picture from one sink. You can see they are manufactured differently. The one on the right has a knurled nut and notice how large the gap is between the nut and valve body. The one on the left looks normal. I have 19 total and this is the only one with the knurled nut. Maybe those are the bad ones? The picture posted by Redwood is also that style.I think the others are okay but who want to take the chance. Not with 900 sq ft of Hickory flooring

    DSCF1368-1.JPG
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2010
  7. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    "MADE IN CHINA?"

    This is why it matters: While Watts may have designed a product that does not break in half, and the first 5,000 were made correctly, the Chinese are specialists in quietly downgrading the metallurgy of the fitting to make a larger profit [ because the corporate greed of America beat their cost down to a miniscule profit]

    Watts does'nt care enough to have a full time inspector in the plant and no way to test container loads.

    Therefore, your choice of any supply hose that says made in USA and has a name and address on it makes it safer -

    1] You can FIND and sue them

    2] The CEO does'nt want some guy barging into his office to strangle him with a dishwasher supply line, so he keeps a good watch on his product.

    3] The profit and workers wages stay in America.

    4] The machine tools, the maintenance, the factory stays in America.

    These truths, as one famous patriot said "Are self evident"

    Also evident are three testing labels on the tag of this junk, which shows the value of our government oversight. Might as well add NEC and OSHA to the tag.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2010
  8. Thatguy

    Thatguy Homeowner

    Messages:
    1,460
    Location:
    MD
    If you're risking $25K with a flood, using "floodstop systems" with sensors in several places over the house seems worthwhile. It would turn off the main inlet supply, assuming it doesn't have problems like that shown above.

    I couldn't find any lawsuits for Floodsafe.
    http://www.ripoffreport.com/Search/floodsafe.aspx

    You'd think insurance companies would be suing them to recover their losses.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subrogate
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2010
  9. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,491
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    It could be made in America, and it would still be a PoS. The problem is in the design, NOT the manufacture, of it. As for "replacing" the standard flexible hoses every five years, I NEVER change them until the faucet is replaced.
  10. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    By what standard have you determined that the seperation of the two portions was NOT caused by faulty casting, crimping or bonding?

    Never bought one, as it was obvious to me that it was a sales scam and the mechanics of the device prone to false closure or plugging at the very least.

    We will find out when the lawsuit does open up.

    [QUOTE]I believe this might be a system similar to what you are talking about...
    http://www.watercop.com/overview.aspx
    [/QUOTE
    ]

    Better not mix that before the home firesprinkler systems soon to be mandated
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2010
  11. Chad Schloss

    Chad Schloss Member

    Messages:
    329
    Location:
    USA
    After reading this thread, I immediately went and bought new hoses for both my washing machines today. $40 bucks for new hoses vs 40k in damage.. A no brainer. Thanks for posting this :)
  12. Thatguy

    Thatguy Homeowner

    Messages:
    1,460
    Location:
    MD
    I got the type with the steel braided sleeve.

    I'll have to ask my insurance company how many broken hose/pipe cases they get per year out of how many policyholders. I've never had any breaks of this kind.
  13. Chad Schloss

    Chad Schloss Member

    Messages:
    329
    Location:
    USA
    Yeah I got the steel braded sleeve ones but these have a plastic coating overtop the braiding. I have motorcycle cables like this for my brake lines. Hopefully they will last for a while. I was thinking of keeping the floodsafe ones incase there was ever a recall on them, maybe I could recoop some money.. Probably not though.
  14. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    And send them to Watts for a refund, and mention that the CEO should get 100 lashes with them, valves attached.

    His punishment should be inspecting the factory for a month in China, one bowl of rice daily. Sleep on a bamboo mat.

    I'll just bet the new lines would not blow out.
  15. Thatguy

    Thatguy Homeowner

    Messages:
    1,460
    Location:
    MD
    Actually there was a problem with the quality of refrigerators in China, so they shot the manager. It's SOP.
    He did not survive being shot. High powered rifles have that reputation.

    If the family wants the body they need to reimburse the government for the bullet: 8 cents.
  16. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2010
  17. dga

    dga New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Denver
    Exact Same Failure with WATTS

    My friend and I just purchased a condo near Disney. We put in all new hardwood floors, furniture, paint, appliances, and electronics. His Dad installed the dishwasher line and decided to spend the few extra bucks to be safe and buy the floodsafe line from WATTS. I wish we had found this thread beforehand.

    3 days after they left and after running the dishwasher several times, the line blew and ran for who knows how long flooding ours and our new neighbors below. It is the exact same issue as the other posts. It failed in the same place in the same manor. I could post pictures but my files are too large and I'm too lazy to resize. We even called in two plumbers to attest that it was installed properly and was a failure of the line not the installer.

    I would like to talk to anyone else that his has happened to and understand what ever became of it, who covered the claim, etc. We have a claim in with WATTS right now. I'm a little concerned now about resolution based on what I've read. Please reply to this post or try email at d g a four two zero at hotmail.

    Or post if you need to rent a place near Disney. We have a lot of unforeseen expenses to make up for. :eek:
  18. Rich B

    Rich B DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    283
    Location:
    New Jersey
    I just bought a new washer and dryer. I had fairly new Watt's Flood safe hoses on the old washer. I decided I'd just use them over. When I changed them over to the new washer the hot side hose began to leak right where the original poster has shown in his picture. I threw them in the trash along with the one I had on a toilet supply.....

    I remember thinking what a great idea these hoses are!! In theory yes, in actual use NO......

    More modern junk made offshore and it's dumped on us at the big box stores and pretty much every where else.....
  19. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,453
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I'm glad to hear that more people are finding out about this defective product...
    I'm just sorry to hear that it is after the leak instead of before going to the big orange box where you have to go out of your way to avoid buying them....
  20. Thomas Morris

    Thomas Morris New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Gulf Shores, Alabama
    I have found a product called Flood Free Zone that has a remote control to shut off the water to the house to prevent all of the flooding to the house or anyother building that water damage could cause damage by busted water pipes of any sorts.
    for more information visit www.floodfreezone.com
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