Water treatment advice

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by kg2k, Mar 9, 2011.

  1. kg2k

    kg2k New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Northern NY
    I am looking for some advice. I recently had a new well drilled and the old one plugged. The results of the water test are:

    Turbidity = 2.6 NTU
    PH = 5.9 Std. units
    Iron = 0.38 mg/L
    Manganese = 0.078 mg/L
    Sodium 5.5 mg/L
    Iron + Manganese 0.46 mg/L
    Hardness 45 mg/L
    Lead .0021
    Alkalinity 40
    E-Coli negative
    Total coliform negative

    I initially was just going to get a softener and an under the sink reverse osmosis system. It appears I should treat the acidity though as well so now I am thinking Acid Neutrilizer, softener and RO for drinking water. Based on these results should I be considering anything else? Thanks.
  2. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,484
    Location:
    Alaska
    I would start with say a calcite filter and correct the ph, it might also lower the iron and manganese that is in the water.
    Then the softener, and maybe a simple carbon block for under the sink.
  3. kg2k

    kg2k New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Northern NY
    Thanks for the reply. That seems like a reasonable place to start but I have no idea where to begin. I searched Acid Neutrilizers and Calcite filters and there's not a lot of clear information. It looks like most people recommend upflow units. I'll keep searching around.
  4. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,484
    Location:
    Alaska
    Upflow is just that up flow through the media with no backwash and works very good if there is nothing in the water or very low levels of iron and the like.
    If the iron is high or over about 3 ppm then a backwashing control on top of the calcite would be better, 5600 is a good valve but really a 2510 would be better because one can control how long it is in each part of the cleaning cycle where the 5600 has no way of controling the parts of the cycle.

    Calcite filters are sized both on flow rate needed and level of ph that is going to need corrected.
    the higher the flow and more correction the more calcite, but there is a limit if a control is needed because of the backwash gpm needed, if the unit needs 8gpm but the well only does 5gpm that size will not work.
  5. kg2k

    kg2k New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Northern NY
  6. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,484
    Location:
    Alaska
    Not sure if I would use a Fleck 7000, but that aside the blend media is some thing that I would stay away from, if it is not done right it can become hard and then the whole thing goes out to the trash.

    If I had a choice , I would do up flow, there is really no iron to speak of at .4 and the Mn is at .08.... neither to really build up in the calcite up flow.

    just my thoughts and .02cents worth.
  7. kg2k

    kg2k New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Northern NY
    My water gets pretty good red stains though. My inline filter also is completely red/brown. It's a marked improvement over the old well but still seems pretty bad. Any opinion on cleaanwaterstore.com? They seems to always come up near the top on a google search, not that that means anything...

    Here are there upflow neautrilizers http://www.cleanwaterstore.com/upflow-neutralizers.html

    Thanks again for the reply.
  8. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,484
    Location:
    Alaska
    They are paying Google for that upper listing.

    If your water is staining, then the test that you posted , was that after some kind of filter?
  9. kg2k

    kg2k New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Northern NY
    I get it about the upper listing but an acid neutralizer isn't something that it appears you can pick up at a home depot or lowe's and there aren't really any other local choices. It seems difficult to find reseller reviews for online water treatment stores...

    I do have a whole house filter but I had it on bypass and ran the water for about 20 minutes on bypass the day I collected my samples. The pressure tank filled several times so I am confident the sample was straight from the well.
  10. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,484
    Location:
    Alaska
    And how long does it take for the iron to build up?

    Neutralizers are a little more tricky than softeners or iron filters.. if there is a mix of media and it is not right then it channels and hardens. If it is not backwashed every 2-3 days the same thing can happen, if the flow rate from the well is not where it should be then it falls on its face...

    A 12x48 is as large as you are going to be able to go, backwash is at 7gpm..
    The 2510 is a simpler valve to work on over the 7000.. all that the 2510 would have to be is the flat cap backwash 12 day.
    With the 12x48 you should be able to get 2 cubic of the calcite in it.

    Neutralizers are not as fancy as the rest, it is one of the down in the trench work horses that often does not get talked about.

    Simple valve, tank and the media.
    One might even be able to find most of it used save for the media...
  11. kg2k

    kg2k New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Northern NY
    It takes about 24-48 hours for a brown/red streak to appear if I leave the bathtub faucet dripping. A few days for the toilet to show some minor staining.

    The 2510 is a manual backwash, right? I thought I read that somewhere.

    Do I really need blended media with a PH of 5.9? It looks like most sites that sell this stuff reccomend it for below 6.0 but at 5.9 I think i might just go with straight calcite.

    Thanks again.
  12. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,484
    Location:
    Alaska
    2510 has three typs of control, Metered, day and then there is the Manual where you go and move a handle to each spot on the cleaning cycle.

    If you are going with 2.0 it should unless you are running at the 7.0gpm 100% of the time.

    Find a tank that has a shoulder hole on it, the tank will cost a little more but when it comes time to filling with the calcite it will be so much nicer.
    Also a natural tank so that you can back light it for the media level in the tank.
  13. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    A X gpm pump only delivers its rated gpm when the head of the system is at the point where the pump can't deliver more gpm than that; IOWs the head is less and you get more water than the rated X gpm of the pump.

    Upflow AN filters require a prefilter due to no backwash and they are not a good choice IMO.

    A 2.0 cuft AN filter requires much more than 7 gpm for successful backwashing.

    The recovery rate of the well has nothing to do with how many gpm you can get out of the well's storage volume.

    The 5600 is not to be used on a filter with larger than a 10" diameter tank.

    Mixed bed AN mineral does not get hard. It doesn't channel either. Corrosex used alone can harden IF the water's hardness is more than 5 gpg. Mixed bed is needed for less than a 6.0 pH or you will not get the pH up high enough (7 pH) when using more than say 4-5 gpm in the house.
  14. kg2k

    kg2k New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Northern NY
  15. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,484
    Location:
    Alaska
    I would not be using a 5600 for the AN filter, no control of the backwash.

    After the AN filter the water might have a 4-5 grain hardness... you may or may not like that hardness ... You could leave room for it and put it in later if you decide to put a softener in.
  16. kg2k

    kg2k New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Northern NY
    I have been sidetracked with a bunch of other stuff so I haven't progressed any more on this. I have a couple other questions, if you don't mind. I don't have a drain anywhere near my water main/pressure tank. The drain I would probably tie into is about 35' away. Can I just run pex to tie into that?

    The other question I have is I have limited space where this is going. It looks like the Kenmore softeners just take up less space in general. I am thinking of getting the AN online and then just getting a softener from Sears. Are the softeners from Sears any good? I have a brother that uses one and he seems pretty happy with it, although he as had it less than 6 months.
  17. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Messages:
    4,217
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    kg2k,

    Good Morning. The first 3 numbers tell the maker of Sears Appliances.
    Other people may be able to give you a better answer if you know who makes it.

    Some of there stuff is good, some not so good. But you can always get parts easy. (Hopefully You will not need parts any time soon)

    The number will be 123.4567890 or something similar. The first 3 are manufacture code.

    Good Luck, Have a Great Day.
  18. kg2k

    kg2k New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Northern NY
    I just figured I would come back and give an update. I installed the neutralizer, which I purchased from cleanwaterstore.com. I went with the Fleck 2510 and 1.5 cf tank. I finally installed it just under 2 weeks ago and couldn't be happier with the results so far. Not only does my water test neutral now, it also drastically reduced the red staining problems I had. Maybe even eliminated the problem but it's too early to tell. I haven't had the water tested from a lab again yet but I really don't think I am going to need the softener. I haven't started drinking it yet either and still need to address that but so far so good with the neutralizer.

    Just wanted to say thanks again.
  19. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,484
    Location:
    Alaska
    How often is it doing a back wash cycle?

    The neutralizer will correct the ph, maybe remove some of the iron but will do nothing in removing the hardness of the water, if any thing it will add a few grains of hardness to the water making it harder than it was before the neutralizer.
  20. boaeater

    boaeater New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    twin falls, idaho
    Iron in your water

    We had the same issue with iron in our home. We are on city water but it is from a well (small town). the sinks and toilets always had stains. We purchased magnetic water softeners from *********. The results were absolutely amazing. After a couple of weeks, all the red stains (and other stains) were completely gone. Our water is soft, soft, soft. My wife says removing the magnets is grounds for divorce (her hair is soft again). Also, we flushed the hot water heater a few months ago because it was not heating well, and almost nothing came out. They claimed that the magnetized water would loosen and dissolve the scale buildup in our hot water heater and water lines, so we flushed the hot water heater again a month after installation and got three, five gallon buckets of sludge out of it. Now it works like it should. Even the slow running water in two of our sinks is now running with great pressure again. Not sure what to do for you ph problem, but these magnets have been our lifesaver.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2011
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