Water treatment advice needed

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DaveF560

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Hello,

I've been browsing for a while now trying to learn as much as I can. I'm hoping I can get some specific advice for my situation.

We moved in to our home 3 years ago. It has a well and currently doesn't have any treatment or filtering systems. We'd like to improve our water. Our two biggest concerns are a metallic taste and red staining in the toilet bowls and showers. A secondary concern is mineral build-up on faucets, etc.

We have our well tested each year by the county and do not have any issues with bacteria or nitrates. We had a separate water test done to confirm our hardness and iron levels and received these results:
  • pH: 7.71
  • Hardness: 416.0 mg/L
  • Tannins: 0.3 mg/L
  • Iron: 0.63 mg/L
Water comes out of the tap clear, but if allowed to sit for a while (such as a filled bathtub) turns just slightly reddish-orange. I believe this means we have ferrous iron if that matters. I've tried to research some options for iron treatment since that's our primary concern, but it appears that most iron treatment systems are designed to treat much higher levels of iron. Given that our water is very hard, would just installing a softener be sufficient? We'd like to minimize the problems with the fixtures but is it possible to do that without making our water feel slimy (and salty)? We've always been on city water in previous residences so we are new to water softeners.

Thanks for any insight!
 

Bannerman

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Iron will usually become a problem at 0.3 ppm (equal to mg/L) and above.
While a dedicated iron reduction system can be utilized for relatively low levels of iron as you have, the question is, how much do you wish to spend?

While a softener will remove moderate levels of iron, it will usually require additional salt, a higher regeneration frequency and ongoing maintenance to reduce the potential of the iron from fouling the resin.

You didn't mention sulfur odor as that could not be corrected with softening. Sulfur would require a further treatment method also appropriate for iron reduction.

Your hardness level is relatively high at over 24 grains per gallon so you will benefit from a softener. Since your iron content is relatively low, you may want to proceed to install a properly sized softener, but you could leave room for an iron filter before the softener, if you later find that further treatment becomes necessary.

Softener sizing maybe estimated by using this information and online calculator: http://qualitywaterassociates.com/softeners/sizingchart.htm
http://qualitywaterassociates.com/sizing.php

Since you are not accustomed to a water softener, the 'sliminess' you refer to, is actually the natural feeling of your own skin, without any soap residue sticking to it as occurs with hard water. Your family will quickly become accustomed to the change and will likely not feel as clean when later showering in hard water.
Laundry and dish washing detergents will need to be substantially reduced as will fabric softener, hair shampoo and other personal care products.
 

Mialynette2003

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Bannerman gave you a lot of good advise but he did not touch on the tannins in the water. The water will have a weak tea color and give the water a musty smell/taste. It requires anion resin so you will have to buy a separate system for tannin removal. First would be the softener then the tannin system. With the low amount of iron, I would use a softener to remove it.
 

Reach4

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  • Tannins: 0.3 mg/L
  • Iron: 0.63 mg/L
From what I have seen, most water tests don't give you a tannins number. What kind of water test did you get?

What is the source of the water -- 170 ft well, or what?

Edit: http://www.ntllabs.com/pdf/ProblemCheckCutSheet.pdf shows MDL of 0.5 for their problems check test.

I was unable to find an SMCL (secondary maximum contaminate level) for tannins, although I expect there is one.
 
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Bannerman

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The water will have a weak tea color and give the water a musty smell/taste
While the test results indicated Tannins, the stated list of concerns seemed to relate to iron and mineral issues. It appeared that Tannins were not actually presenting an issue currently.
 

Mialynette2003

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While the test results indicated Tannins, the stated list of concerns seemed to relate to iron and mineral issues. It appeared that Tannins were not actually presenting an issue currently.
Until recently, I have not had to deal with Tanins. Had customers say they were getting iron in the water, but when I tested it, I found no iron. Ended up buying a Tannin test kit. In the past 2 years, I recommended a Tannin system 10+ times. The measurements I am getting here in central Fla are 1.0-7.0 ppm. It may be low enough to not be noticeable.
 

DaveF560

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Thanks for all the replies. I'm leaning towards putting in a softener first and seeing how that goes, with the option to add additional iron treatment later on if needed. I understand that treating iron with the softener will require possibly more frequent regeneration and treatment with iron out or similar.

You didn't mention sulfur odor as that could not be corrected with softening. Sulfur would require a further treatment method also appropriate for iron reduction.

We haven't noticed any sulfur smells with our water. The water does have what I'd describe as a slight metallic smell which reminds me of campground showers, but I assume that's just from the minerals in the water.

The water will have a weak tea color and give the water a musty smell/taste.

I'm not sure what to think about this. We don't have those symptoms at all. I wasn't able to find much information on what typical tannin levels are to know if that number is high or not.

From what I have seen, most water tests don't give you a tannins number. What kind of water test did you get?
I had the test done by a nearby water lab that was listed by the state EPA for water testing. Rather than one comprehensive test, they had individual tests that could be selected. When I explained the issues with our water that we were looking to diagnose, they recommended the tannin test in addition to the iron as they said that could be a possible reason for the brown staining in the fixtures. Based on what I've read regarding tannins I'm not convinced that it's an issue for us.

Regarding softener sizing - I've tried to read up a bunch on how to find the right size, including the sizing tool linked above. We have a 4 BR house, 2.5 baths, 4 people (2 adults, 2 children). The sizing tool comes up with 6424.8 grains of daily capacity or 51398.4 for about a week in between regeneration. However, it also says a 3 cu. ft. softener is required (looks like we're right on the edge, if I bump the gallons per day per person to 58 instead of 60 I get 2.5 cu. ft.). Softeners with 2.5-3 cu. ft. seem to have 80K-96K grains of capacity which seems significantly higher than we need. My understanding is that the 3 cu. ft. recommendation is driven by not just the amount of hardness we need to remove but also by needing to maintain a higher flow rate for a 4-person house, right?

Other sizing calculations I've looked at use a simpler formula which is basically how many grains need to be removed per week (people * gallons/person * hardness * ideal days between regeneration) and come up with a recommendation of 64K grains.

So, can anyone steer me in the right direction here? Should I be looking at the 80-96K because of our household size or is the 64K sufficient? I'm not concerned much about the cost difference between the two, but I don't want to get something oversize if that introduces additional complications such as making the time between regeneration too long.

Thanks again for your help!
 

Reach4

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You would normally derate a 2 cuft unit to 40000 or 48000 grains by using less salt per regen, but getting a lot more softening per bag of salt.

You are considering the right things. How big is your current softener, and how does it seem to do? Click Inbox above.
 

Bannerman

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Softeners with 2.5-3 cu. ft. seem to have 80K-96K grains of capacity which seems significantly higher than we need.
Don't be too concerned with the total grains capacity as you won't be utilizing all of that capacity before regenerating. Similar to your car, you don't need to wait until the fuel tank is empty before obtaining more fuel. Unlike a car, the salt efficiency (miles per gallon) continues to rise dramatically as the restored percentage of total capacity decreases.

You will want an appropriate size softener to meet your weekly needs while using an efficient salt setting. At the bottom of the sizing chart is a comparison of various salt settings.

With 4 person household @ 24 gpg + 0.63 ppm iron:

A 2.5 cu/ft softener will require only 15 lbs of salt (6 lbs cu/ft) to restore 50K of usable capacity which yields 3,333 grains per lb. Regeneration would occur every 8 days (when calculated at 58 gal/person/day). If the water consumption was a little higher, the regeneration frequency may then be 7 days.

That same 2.5 cu/ft unit would require 20 lbs salt (8 lbs cu/ft) to restore 60K of usable capacity (3000 grains/lb). The regeneration frequency would then be 10 days.

If almost all the capacity of the 2.5 cu/ft was utilized, 37.5 lbs/salt (15 lbs cu/ft) would be needed to restore 75K capacity, yielding only 2000 grains/lb with a 12 day regen frequency.
 
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Bannerman

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You asked about a 2 cuft (64K) system being appropriate for your needs. For ease of comparison, the same 6152.64 daily requirement and 58 gal/pp/day is used as above:

To restore 60K capacity would need 30 lbs/salt (15lbs/cuft), yielding 2000 grains/lb with a 9 day regeneration frequency.

To restore 54K capacity would need 20 lbs/salt (10lbs/cuft), yielding 2700 grains/lb with an 8 day regeneration frequency.

To restore 48K capacity would need 16 lbs/salt (8lbs/cuft), yielding 3000 grains/lb with a 7 day regeneration frequency.

To restore 40K capacity would need 12 lbs/salt (6lbs/cuft), yielding 3,333 grains/lb with a 6 day regeneration frequency.

The constant SFR (service flow rating) for a 2 cuft is typically 13 gpm, 2.5 cuft = 18 gpm, 3 cuft = 20 gpm. As you didn't mention any high demand fixtures or appliances such as multi head showers or large soaker tubs, I expect your requirements will be typical of most households at mostly < 7 gpm so any of the softener sizes being considered, will exceed your flow requirements.
 
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