Bannerman, you are correct, I had odor with the old tank. I had a 2 week break with the new one before it returned. The NTL Water kit arrived today, so I will test today and mail it it.
Water Testing Suggestions - Northern Illinois
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Bannerman, you are correct, I had odor with the old tank. I had a 2 week break with the new one before it returned. The NTL Water kit arrived today, so I will test today and mail it it.
Which water will you test? I would tend to test the raw water-- before a softener or heater.
The instructions probably call for disinfecting the tap and then letting water run for a good while before sampling.
Pay attention to when they work. You would not want to send your sample out overnight on Friday if they don't work a full day on Saturday.
The instructions probably call for disinfecting the tap and then letting water run for a good while before sampling.
Pay attention to when they work. You would not want to send your sample out overnight on Friday if they don't work a full day on Saturday.
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I was going get water from the outside tap, before softener & heater. Does it really matter how long it takes from "draw" to test? I was going to do it Friday morning, but it wouldn't be tested until early next week. Does it really matter if the water is 2 days old or a week old?
Nevermind, just read instructions....includes ice pack, ship asap, etc....ok I get it now. Its the bacteria portion of the test that needs to be tested as soon as possible. thx.
Well, just sent water in (Tuesday). All in, including air overnight shipping, it cost $200. A bit more than I had planned, but worth the peace of mind, as long as I don't have to re do it. I'll post results if anyone is interested.
Bannerman
Well-Known Member
Yes, post the results. There is much interest which is why you have received many replies to your initial post.
There are some here who work in the trade and have the knowledge and experience to make recommendations as to properly treat your specific water conditions, whatever the conditions turn out to be.
Ok, while I wait for the results of the water test for NTL, a problem prior to the water heater replacement has crept back in. In addition to the hot water smelling (not a sulfur smell though), there is an increase in sediment from some of the faucets. Much of sediment looks like "flecks".
This doesn't happen from cold water taps. Also, there is no sediment in the water when I flush the water tank from its drain at the bottom of the tank.
Could the sediment/flakes be buildup from inside of the pipes?
I am considering treating the water heater via the hydrogen peroxide method suggested here. Since I have a recirculating system, if there was anaerobic bacteria in the previous tank, there may be a good chance bacteria in the old lines may have been introduced to the new tank.
Treating the tank and system may help the smell, but would it help with the sediment/flakes/debris in the hot water lines?
I would not be afraid of bleach in the water heater, as long as you drain and flush. So while the peroxide treatment may help, I suggest flushing out sediment before sanitizing. Then sanitize the well, the pipes, faucets, and the water heater. If some more debris loosens up after the cleaning, fine. It won't be rocks.
I would do flushing of the water heater initially to get rid of sand and rocks now. You could wait to do the rest after you get your report, but I don't know what your report would show that would make you do the sanitizing differently; if no pathogens, I would sanitize. I guess if the test showed pathogens (unlikely), I would re-test after sanitizing, and maybe get some Hach "pillows" for DIY pathogen testing. If pathogens return, get the well repaired and then sanitize again. I would sanitize the well and do pipes at the end of the well part of the process. I would let the chlorinated water flow through every faucet and then let that water sit in the pipes and water heater for enough time. I would make sure that even the hot faucets put out 50 ppm at least.
To aid making sure the chlorine levels are adequate, I would get some high-level test paper measures to 200ppm .
So would what you describe help with sediment in the faucets? I don't know. But I would use the cheaper bleach and vinegar and do the whole thing.
The part I feel less comfortable about is the water softener. Some chlorine or peroxide should go into that tank, but maybe not 200 ppm (I believe in overkill for well and pipes). I think I would wait until the chlorine was down to about 50 PPM before taking the softener out of bypass. Maybe lower. I would look that up. I would let that sit in the tank for a time that I am not sure of, and then I would run less-chlorinated water thru to wash the resin. Most of the flushing I would do with the softener in bypass.
So to recap, I think that H2O2 in the WH before the other pipes are sanitized is not going to be the most effective.
I would do flushing of the water heater initially to get rid of sand and rocks now. You could wait to do the rest after you get your report, but I don't know what your report would show that would make you do the sanitizing differently; if no pathogens, I would sanitize. I guess if the test showed pathogens (unlikely), I would re-test after sanitizing, and maybe get some Hach "pillows" for DIY pathogen testing. If pathogens return, get the well repaired and then sanitize again. I would sanitize the well and do pipes at the end of the well part of the process. I would let the chlorinated water flow through every faucet and then let that water sit in the pipes and water heater for enough time. I would make sure that even the hot faucets put out 50 ppm at least.
To aid making sure the chlorine levels are adequate, I would get some high-level test paper measures to 200ppm .
So would what you describe help with sediment in the faucets? I don't know. But I would use the cheaper bleach and vinegar and do the whole thing.
The part I feel less comfortable about is the water softener. Some chlorine or peroxide should go into that tank, but maybe not 200 ppm (I believe in overkill for well and pipes). I think I would wait until the chlorine was down to about 50 PPM before taking the softener out of bypass. Maybe lower. I would look that up. I would let that sit in the tank for a time that I am not sure of, and then I would run less-chlorinated water thru to wash the resin. Most of the flushing I would do with the softener in bypass.
So to recap, I think that H2O2 in the WH before the other pipes are sanitized is not going to be the most effective.
I will wait for NTL test, but feel treating the water tank wouldn't hurt. Unless, of course the well has bacteria.
Below is a pic of the "debris" in my lines. What the hell is this? It seems like it has to be buildup in the pipes breaking off? But why? What is it? Are the pipes breaking down? Totally perplexed and aggravated because it is clogging the faucet screens eventually. This is especially more perplexing since there is not sediment in the bottom of the water heater.
Mikey
Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek
Is it really black? Is it soft or brittle?
It is black and appears to be brittle.
Mikey
Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek
Can't wait to see your manganese test results.
Results of the water test are finally in. Having trouble figuring out how to get pages from PDF file here. Below is a cut/past of the results from the PDF file. If anyone needs the actual PDF, I may be able to figure out how to convert with removing my contact info.
Below results are after the well but before the water softener.
Microbiologicals
Total Coliform by P/A Total Coliform and E.coli were ABSENT in this sample.
Inorganic Analytes - Metals
Aluminum ND mg/L 0.2 EPA Secondary 0.1
Arsenic ND mg/L 0.010 EPA Primary 0.005
Barium ND mg/L 2 EPA Primary 0.30
Cadmium ND mg/L 0.005 EPA Primary 0.002
Calcium 63.2 mg/L -- 2.0
Chromium ND mg/L 0.1 EPA Primary 0.010
Copper 0.011 mg/L 1.3 EPA Action Level 0.004
Iron 0.347 mg/L 0.3 EPA Secondary 0.020
Lead 0.003 mg/L 0.015 EPA Action Level 0.002
Magnesium 55.72 mg/L -- 0.10
Manganese 0.006 mg/L 0.05 EPA Secondary 0.004
Mercury ND mg/L 0.002 EPA Primary 0.001
Nickel ND mg/L -- 0.020
Potassium 2.6 mg/L -- 1.0
Selenium ND mg/L 0.05 EPA Primary 0.020
Silica 17.7 mg/L -- 0.1
Silver ND mg/L 0.100 EPA Secondary 0.002
Sodium 65 mg/L -- 1
Zinc 0.119 mg/L 5 EPA Secondary 0.004
Physical Factors
Alkalinity (Total as CaCO3) 180 mg/L -- 20
Hardness 390 mg/L 100 NTL Internal 10
pH 7.7 pH Units 6.5 to 8.5 EPA Secondary
Total Dissolved Solids 680 mg/L 500 EPA Secondary 20
Turbidity 0.4 NTU 1.0 EPA Action Level 0.1
Status Contaminant Results Units National Standards Min. Detection Level
Page 2 of 3 4/15/2015 11:35:55 AM Product: Well-Check Sample: 853138
Inorganic Analytes - Other
Chloride ND mg/L 250 EPA Secondary 5.0
Fluoride ND mg/L 4.0 EPA Primary 0.5
Nitrate as N ND mg/L 10 EPA Primary 0.5
Nitrite as N ND mg/L 1 EPA Primary 0.5
Ortho Phosphate ND mg/L -- 2.0
Sulfate 370.0 mg/L 250 EPA Secondary 5.0
Below results are after the well but before the water softener.
Microbiologicals
Total Coliform by P/A Total Coliform and E.coli were ABSENT in this sample.
Inorganic Analytes - Metals
Aluminum ND mg/L 0.2 EPA Secondary 0.1
Arsenic ND mg/L 0.010 EPA Primary 0.005
Barium ND mg/L 2 EPA Primary 0.30
Cadmium ND mg/L 0.005 EPA Primary 0.002
Calcium 63.2 mg/L -- 2.0
Chromium ND mg/L 0.1 EPA Primary 0.010
Copper 0.011 mg/L 1.3 EPA Action Level 0.004
Iron 0.347 mg/L 0.3 EPA Secondary 0.020
Lead 0.003 mg/L 0.015 EPA Action Level 0.002
Magnesium 55.72 mg/L -- 0.10
Manganese 0.006 mg/L 0.05 EPA Secondary 0.004
Mercury ND mg/L 0.002 EPA Primary 0.001
Nickel ND mg/L -- 0.020
Potassium 2.6 mg/L -- 1.0
Selenium ND mg/L 0.05 EPA Primary 0.020
Silica 17.7 mg/L -- 0.1
Silver ND mg/L 0.100 EPA Secondary 0.002
Sodium 65 mg/L -- 1
Zinc 0.119 mg/L 5 EPA Secondary 0.004
Physical Factors
Alkalinity (Total as CaCO3) 180 mg/L -- 20
Hardness 390 mg/L 100 NTL Internal 10
pH 7.7 pH Units 6.5 to 8.5 EPA Secondary
Total Dissolved Solids 680 mg/L 500 EPA Secondary 20
Turbidity 0.4 NTU 1.0 EPA Action Level 0.1
Status Contaminant Results Units National Standards Min. Detection Level
Page 2 of 3 4/15/2015 11:35:55 AM Product: Well-Check Sample: 853138
Inorganic Analytes - Other
Chloride ND mg/L 250 EPA Secondary 5.0
Fluoride ND mg/L 4.0 EPA Primary 0.5
Nitrate as N ND mg/L 10 EPA Primary 0.5
Nitrite as N ND mg/L 1 EPA Primary 0.5
Ortho Phosphate ND mg/L -- 2.0
Sulfate 370.0 mg/L 250 EPA Secondary 5.0
It looks as if your testing process took about 5-1/2 weeks.
You need a softener with your 23 grains of hardness before compensation for iron, manganese and general principles. It should be able to handle that level of iron and manganese, but if you put in a sulfur filter that also removed iron and manganese before the softener, that would be better.
Silica levels are not too bad. My water test did not even test for that. Silica can cause spotting that you cannot remove, but I think the levels have to be a lot higher to be a problem. I keep distilled water in a spray bottle for final rinsing of some things including eyeglasses. A gallon, which costs under $1, lasts me over a year for the spraying.
I don't know how to address sulfate. Maybe don't address it directly. My test did not test for sulfate. http://water.epa.gov/drink/contaminants/unregulated/sulfate.cfm I expect that it accompanies hydrogen sulfide (H2S), which you or others can smell but is not normally tested in a mail-away test. Going to a powered anode for the water heater is one way to help prevent sulfate from being converted to H2S in the water heater. Actually your well sanitizing should help that since SRB will be killed in that process. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfate-reducing_bacteria http://www.moravecwaterwells.com/index.php/maintainance/disinfection-and-testing
I now have a Centaur Carbon filter that does well with sulfur smell plus iron. I would probably go with Katalox Light media if I were making the choice today. I also have a powered anode.
Nice pH.
Thanks for yout input. I procratinated a bit. The acutal test results were only 7-8 days. Nice service by NTL.
I may have asked before, but does the carbon filter effect water pressure? Also how often do you change the filter?
Finally, is it worth while to test after the water heater? Or should I just treat the water heater?
Thanks again for your suggestions. I am very pleased and impressed withthe intelligent responses by people on this board. Thank you.
My filter is a backwashing filter and looks like a water softener. Media is supposed to last about 8 years. This is not activated carbon, but catalytic carbon. I think it would be similar with Katalox Light.
I would not see value in testing after the water heater. I suggest that you sanitize it all.
Sanitize it all... I was planning on sanitizing the water heater and pipes. Are suggesting that I sanitize the well first? Did the water results indicate a strong reason to sanitize the well? I can start with the well, but I have never done this before, so I have a little hesitation just because of the unknown.
Based on the test results, how would sanitizing the well help?
Thanks!
Based on the test results, how would sanitizing the well help?
Thanks!
You have a well that you don't know how long since it was sanitized. You have a smell. Those indicates a strong reason to sanitize the well.
The test shows that you did/do not endanger your health by drinking the water. The sulfate shows the SRB has a sulfur compound to reduce to give you a sulfur smell. SRB and IRB are not harmful for drinking.
See reply #7.
Sanitizing together makes sense to me. Why leave a reservoir of bacteria to recolonize? But if you were going to do it in stages, starting with the upstream side would seem to make sense anyway. The chlorinated water from the well can then be pumped through the inside plumbing once it is down to the right strength for that purpose. You will pump the strongest chlorine into the ditch. You will put less chlorine into the septic tank, although the septic tank can handle some chlorine. I would run some of the water heater chlorine to the ditch or driveway also.
Ok, that makes sense. I'll carve some time over a weekend and start with the well, then move onto the water heater another weekend. Thanks again.
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