water test values - what do you think?

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by croghanite, Jan 1, 2011.

  1. croghanite

    croghanite New Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    SC
    A fellar tested my water at the well (raw), at my kitchen sink, and at a carbon filter i have (berkey filter). He wants to sell me a water softner for 4k. What do you think of his readings?

    Raw:
    5 grain hardness
    3ppm Iron
    6.9 ph
    50 TDS

    Sink:
    5 grain hardness
    1.5ppm Iron
    7.5 ph
    54 TDS

    Berkey filter:
    5 grain hardness
    1ppm Iron
    7.5 ph
    54TDS
  2. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,496
    Location:
    Alaska
    Not sure why your ph is different if all that you have is taste filter on at the kitchen sink.. it will cut down on the iron but not the hardness and should not change the ph.

    Question, why did you call the person?
    What are you looking for in the way of water?
  3. croghanite

    croghanite New Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    SC
    I have a "chem-free" air injected filter system. See this thread for pics and info.
    My water has recently started smelling metallic and has become a little yellow. That made me look into whats going on. I hired this fellar to come out to see if he could service my system and he tested the water.

    He had not a clue about the system and said I ought to buy a water softner from him and get rid of my current system.

    From my research, I believe the media in my 2nd tank raises the PH and is supposed to fully reduce Iron.

    I would like to know what media I am supposed to put in the tank so I can do it myself. NO ONE in my area knows what the deal is!

    This here is the broadest overview of a chem-free air injected riltering system that I found.
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2011
  4. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,496
    Location:
    Alaska
    Ok, here is the biggest thing with the so called Chem free systems,,,,,,,,, flow rate from the well.........
    Take the WaterSoft Provector system, it needs at least 5gpm through the microniser to pull the air in and then 7gpm for the backwash..
    So in short the well needs to be doing at a min 8gpm for every thing else to work correctly.. if that is not then the whole system might as well not even be in line.
    Then the so called Chem free systems need a cleaning of the valve and pipes from where the air is pulled in to the filter every 1-2 years... build up in the lines starts to cut down on flow rate and that starts cut down on how good the system cleans its self and pressure in the house.
    Systems like yours should not go into the area like what you have,, real pain to work on and change the media when needed..

    Water soft iron filters use a mixed media and one of the medias is to correct the ph and needs to add some say once a year or every 2 years..

    Calcite is what you would be looking for, measure the distance between the media and the valve, if it is more than 17" then you need to add calcite to bring the media up to the 17" differance..
  5. croghanite

    croghanite New Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    SC
    That is very helpful, thanks.

    I reckon I will check the media level monday and order some calcite. I will also clean out those pipes as you suggested.

    I have been told that these chemfree units need to be "rebedded" every year. I understand removing all the existing media and washing the tank out but I don't know what and how much media to put back in.

    Could you advise me on that? one pound of Georgia marble, etc. Maybe theres a web site about it (I can't find one) see this link for my sake

    How can I test gpm of my pump? Is there a calculation where I can time how long it takes for my pump to get to the cutoff limit pressure after starting?
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2011
  6. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,496
    Location:
    Alaska
    I have had customers get 12 years out of 1.5 cubic of the mixed bed media from WaterSoft, but they where cleaning valve and pipes at least every other year..
    Depending on the size of the tank under the 5600 backwash control valve, if it is 10x54 then it will be 1.5 cubic, if it is 13x54 then it will be 2.5 cubic foot of media.
    From the link that you sent, say the 50lbs would do for a few top offs of the media or to bring it back to the level needed depending how often you do the check up on the system.
    For the pump gpm, I have a card on Amtrol tanks, that give gallons based on size and with the different pressure switchs how many draw down gallons for each tank.

    With what most call a 5 gallon bucket and a hose..
    With the hose going out side from the drain valve there at pressure tank tee and have it run full open.. as the bucket fills , time it, under 1 minute and if you have another bucket there that you can move the hose to or if the first bucket fills with in 30 sec(again while pump running) then you are at 10gpm.
  7. croghanite

    croghanite New Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    SC
    Sounds good! I understand the maintenance. I will add calcite upto 17" of the top of the fill hole as needed. I got the gpm calculation too (pretty obvious, i should have known!)

    What about rebedding the tank? What layers of different media am I supposed to rebed it with?

    From my research I think it goes like this in order:
    1) Remove all the old media and wash out the tank.
    2) Fill the bottom with "georgia stone". How high do I fill it?
    3) Fill calcite after the georgia stone up to 17" from the fill cap and I'm done.

    Is that rebedding process I stated correct? It's just georgia stone and calcite? The calcite will raise the PH and remove Iron?

    Thanks again for the help!
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2011
  8. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,496
    Location:
    Alaska
    Simplest way of replacing the media would be to use the Mixed bed media from WaterSoft.. it is already a blend of some 5 different medias and it will put its self where it needs to be after a few back washes so there would be no need to which is first or last.. just add the media..
    The bottom is pee gravel for the under bedding as it is called, most of the time around 15 lbs of 1/4x1/8 one could use a little larger if that is all one could get their hands on.

    Another way of looking at the gravel at the bottom, there is the other end of the distribotor tube, there is a bell like part, the gravel needs to cover it by about 1-2".
    Some thing that I found over the years is that when one is in the range of gravel needed the distribotor tube is not easy to turn..it will but the gravel is binding it so that it is harder to turn..
    I learned a good deal of cooking from my grandmother on a farm in Ill... in that that looks right and food always turned out great... she did messure but it was more by eye and feel... not so much what the book called for.
  9. croghanite

    croghanite New Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    SC
    That's very good information, thanks.

    I don't see that rainsoft sells media direct to a homeowner. Is there a name for the mixture of media that I can get somewhere else? online preferably.
  10. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,496
    Location:
    Alaska
    Not sure if there is any on line, but the order code or number that I use with my suppliers ... MB100 for a one cubic bucket.

    I could on Monday check with a supplier that I use in Washington for Watersoft parts to see if they know of some one in your part or if some would sell to you..
  11. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Georgia marble is a brand name of pH correcting mineral. So is calcite. Corrosex is too but much faster acting and is never used solely, it is used in a mixed bed AN filter.

    Georgia marble is a better product than calcite if you can find it.

    Under any mineral in any filter you want a gravel underbed of 1/4" x 1/8" stone. Your filter may not be all AN mineral, it could be 3-5 layers of various size garnet, then sand and some AN mineral. Or filterag, or birm, MTM pyrolox, greensand etc. etc.
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