water table info for a shallow sandpoint driven well

Users who are viewing this thread

iwantawell

New Member
Messages
16
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
Alabama
If you switch to cable tool drilling, then stay with at least a 5 or 6 inch bore so that it can take a standard sub.


Lets say there is some sand or gravel below. Wouldnt the wet mud and clay above it contaminate it? From all my studying everyones sandpoint wells on webpages amd youtube, i get that they go through topsoil then loam then gravel or sand. Whereas i hit really thick clay, then mud. So is it simply game over for anything shallow?

What does loam even look like
 

LLigetfa

DIYer, not in the trades
Messages
7,497
Reaction score
575
Points
113
Location
NW Ontario, Canada
That question would be best asked the state geologist who may be familiar with the formations in your area.

In my area, a glacier deposited sand and gravel on the Southern side of rock outcroppings. Then over time clay layered over top of it. A half mile North of me, there is a rock outcropping so I knew there could be gravel deposits. In between me and the outcropping, there is an old pit that have the gravel taken out further suggesting there may be gravel. A small stream bed on my land also has gravel.

I had a foot of black clay topsoil, followed by around 59 feet of clay and then a 4 foot layer of sand/gravel before reaching bedrock. That 4 foot layer is where my water is.
 

LLigetfa

DIYer, not in the trades
Messages
7,497
Reaction score
575
Points
113
Location
NW Ontario, Canada
So is it simply game over for anything shallow?
By shallow do you mean the depth to the bottom of the hole or the depth to the water? My father's 120 foot deep well had a shallow well pump since the water level came close to the surface. Neighbors downhill from us punched into the same aquifer had artesian wells. There was an artesian spring on my father's land but it didn't flow all the time.

You can search google images for loam. The colour will vary by region.
 

iwantawell

New Member
Messages
16
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
Alabama
By shallow i meant for shallow sandpoint wells that had wet mud on top. Does it not contaminate whatever is below?

What is hardpan? Isvthat the really really thick clay i was pulling up? I hit 1 layer of clay so thick the auger was pulling it up as what looked like pencil shavings

Lligetfa thanks for your input here. I hunt very nearby and the creekbeds are full of gravel. Sounds like it really may besimilar here. How did you sample your soil that deep, if you used water to drive it down?
 
Last edited:

LLigetfa

DIYer, not in the trades
Messages
7,497
Reaction score
575
Points
113
Location
NW Ontario, Canada
How did you sample your soil that deep, if you used water to drive it down?
My 65 foot well was drilled and a 6 inch casing set by a drill rig. The formation was written up in the report.

On my fathers well that we washdown drilled, we sampled the return water that we collected. The hardpan, as the name implies is a very hard layer that keeps the clay and the gravel beneath apart.
 

iwantawell

New Member
Messages
16
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
Alabama
with your washdown method, how did you get through the hardpan?

im considering trying this now, and just moving to 2" pipe and use a bottom pump. will this big 21ft cavity I have now cause issues?

do I just go till I hit hardpan, then hope that it has wet sand or gravel beneath? do I need to worry at all about all the dirty muddy water from above seeping down to the good stuff below?

where can I get more info on "cable tool drilling" as you mentioned?

thanks again, you've given me hope yet
 

LLigetfa

DIYer, not in the trades
Messages
7,497
Reaction score
575
Points
113
Location
NW Ontario, Canada
There may or may not be hardpan at the end of the clay. There may or may not be sand or gravel at the end of the clay either. If you washdown a 2 inch casing and do hit an aquifer, if the water level is low then a packer jet is the only option. I know not of any pump that would fit down a 2 inch casing.

Cable tool drilling involves a few different "bits" that you repeatedly drop down the hole. In the overburden (sand/clay) it is a section of pipe. The sand/clay gets stuck in the pipe and raise it with the cable and then knock out the dirt.

There is a cable tool bit for rock drilling. A solid steel bit with carbide buttons gets dropped down the hole. It pulverizes the rock, bit by bit. At some point the mud it forms needs to be bailed with another tool called a cable bailer. It can be a long slow process but it is done in a lot of third world countries where fancy drill rigs are scarce. Search YouTube.
 

iwantawell

New Member
Messages
16
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
Alabama
Decided to pump it dry again. this time no mud! wasnt crystal clear, but definitely NOTHING like it was last sat. had a slight tan (not even brown) tint to it, i guess thats sand? This time got about 3 mop buckets of water before I jheard the sandpoint sucking from its top holes down at the bottom so i stopped pumping. I guess this weekend we will pump it dry as we can and continue augering so as to get as much water on top of the sandpoint as possible. will prep some 4"casing as well and get a few bags of small rocks to pack the outside of the casing. i guess ill also get a foot/check valve to use to keep my prime, and will also prob convert to all PVC and save this galv pipe for if i ever do another one and it requires driving.

Did I just get lucky? we did get a good bit of rain about 3 days ago though. but i just now went back again today after nearly pumping it dry and did another round, still no mud
 
Last edited:

iwantawell

New Member
Messages
16
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
Alabama
so we pumped it dry and dug a bit more. its definitely wet sand im pulling up. then we drove the sandpoint in about 4 ft. so theres about a foot of wet sand above the sandpoint, and about 8 ft of water on top of that. then 15ft of air up to the surface.

So we filled the water pipe with water a few times and tried pumping. nothing. eventually the water slowy leaks out. we do this a few times, and finally get to the point we cannot keep water in the pipe, it drains out below.

but we stilll cannot pump water up. everything was VERY tight, so im sure there is no air in the system. i guess the sandpoint is just allowing the water to drain, but when it tries to pump water, it sucks all the sand into itself, clogging itself? is this a feasable explanation? or is something else going on?

from the bottom of the handpump to the top of the water level is 19ft.
 

DonL

Jack of all trades Master of one
Messages
5,205
Reaction score
72
Points
48
Location
Houston, TX
What kind of pump do you have ?

Do you have a check valve ?
 

iwantawell

New Member
Messages
16
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
Alabama
Red simmons hand pump with 1.25 female threads. No check valve other than its leathers. Should i even have put in a check valve since i was pounding it in?
 

DonL

Jack of all trades Master of one
Messages
5,205
Reaction score
72
Points
48
Location
Houston, TX
Simmons recommends a Foot Valve for proper operation.

And I agree with their recommendation.

It may be a bit hard to keep water in the pipe without a check valve.

How are you priming the pump ?


Good Luck on your project.
 
Last edited:

LLigetfa

DIYer, not in the trades
Messages
7,497
Reaction score
575
Points
113
Location
NW Ontario, Canada
Are you using short or full strokes? The pump is designed to self-drain when the handle is up. A checkvalve would defeat the self-drain feature.
 

iwantawell

New Member
Messages
16
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
Alabama
I prime by pouring water down while pumping. I dont Know if half or full which should i do. But havent had problems before.

Overnight my dug up soil hardened. So i thonk its still too much clay

We spend about 45 mins or so going that last 4 feet i guessi just to try deeper for less clay content
 

DonL

Jack of all trades Master of one
Messages
5,205
Reaction score
72
Points
48
Location
Houston, TX
I prime by pouring water down while pumping. I dont Know if half or full which should i do. But havent had problems before.

Overnight my dug up soil hardened. So i thonk its still too much clay

We spend about 45 mins or so going that last 4 feet i guessi just to try deeper for less clay content


Do you have a air compressor that you can use to clear the sand point ?

You may want to hook a real pump to it, then install the hand pump after you know it can produce water.
 

iwantawell

New Member
Messages
16
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
Alabama
Ok pounded a total of about 6 ft down from the bottom on the hole. Then progress just stopped. Another 10 mins of pounding does absolutely nothing. I either hit a rock or maybe hardpan? Will a saandpoint breakthrough hardpan?
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks