Water still backing up from floor drain

[mike04gt]

Hey everyone,

Need some advise here. I live in an old, OLD Chicago two flat house. Recently we have been having some problems with water backing up in the basement floor drain when we shower and even worse when it rains.

I have had our plumber come out twice, and he rodded out the entire line in the house. But it just drizzled the other day, and rain came out of the floor drain still.

I called the city of chicago, they came out and checked the sewer and said the water was flowing just fine, and it was something on my end. But my plumber rodded out all the way up to the street and beyond

Anyone know what is happening with my floor drain and why it keeps coming up??? What could it possibly be?

Here is a crappy diagram of the layout... the 6" cleanout area I was told should not have ANY backup in it, but its up to the cap. It should be flowing through there, which leads me to believe there has to be something wrong between the 6" cap and the street still. But he rodded through there 4 times...

Thanks in advance. I'd like to stop this before it becomes a problem like last time.

 

[Gardner]

non-professional opinion and guesswork

If water comes into your basement when it rains, it is the city's lines at issue.

You're going to need a back-flow valve on that floor drain, or on your main line. Either of these will mean breaking into the slab and working on the drains under your floor. You will need a plumber.

How did you make out with the stand-pipe adapter? Did you find one to fit your floor drain?

You also have the option that sixlashes described to simply put a test plug in the floor drain.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[mike04gt]

If water comes into your basement when it rains, it is the city's lines at issue.

You're going to need a back-flow valve on that floor drain, or on your main line. Either of these will mean breaking into the slab and working on the drains under your floor. You will need a plumber.

How did you make out with the stand-pipe adapter? Did you find one to fit your floor drain?

You also have the option that sixlashes described to simply put a test plug in the floor drain.

Naturally, the city wants you to jump through hoops to get something accomplished. My plumber is coming out tomorrow again with a thicker rod and a claw end to see if he can get more roots or find anything else. If that doesn't work, we'll have to do what the city says and get a camera in there and have one of their inspectors come out to watch it and find out if it is their issue or not.

I can only imagine it is their issue since there is so much water sitting in the lines.

The standpipe adapter did not unfortunately fit, i cranked it as tight as it would go and it was still off by a good 1/4".

My concern with putting a test cap on the floor drain is that it will come out of a different thing in the basement (IE Toilet, Shower, or the outside floor drain in the stairwell addition)... won't that happen if i cap off that floor drain?

 

[Gardner]

If you put in a stand-pipe, backwater will still be able to come out of any fixture lower than that stand-pipe -- like basement toilet or shower. Plugging it completely or installing a stand-pipe won't make any difference in that regard. If the height of the backwater gets to a certain level it will come out of any fixtures at that level or below.

 

[Sixlashes]

If you have other fixtures in the basement, yes the water would come out of them if the floor drain was plugged. It would come out of the shower (being lowest) first and then the toilet if the water level got higher than the rim.

I would still plug the floor drain and the shower if it is in the basement until you get this figured out. Your toilet rim is at least 15" high and I don't remember the water you had last time being this high. I would take any measure possible to eliminate having sewage in your basement!

2 and 2 are not adding up. If the city sewer is in fact not the culprit (which I highly doubt), there are only two possibilities of having water back up into your house. One is there is another sewer line tapped into yours before it empties into the main. If this is the case and there is blockage at the main, you get raw sewage backed up.

The other is if your sewer line is not graded properly to the street and there is a crack in it (tree root or some other cause). Water would enter the sewer line when the ground gets saturated and it flows back to your house instead of to the street. If this is the case, the water in your basement would only get as deep as the line is back-graded because once the water level rose in your basement higher than the back grade, the remainder would then run out into the sewer.

I don't see either of these as probable. I'm sure the city would be aggressive to not allow a building to bypass the fees incurred by tapping into their sewer. The second doesn't seem likely because I remember you had quite a bit of water in your basement and pieces of raw sewage. While the bits could have come from your lines, there would not have been many.

Scoping the line will tell all. It will be a very good investment for you. I would happily pay it and I am a loath to pay someone else to work on my house. Get a recording if possible, it will be ammunition when you deal with the real owner of the problem (the city). By the way, are any of your neighbors having the same problem?

Installing backflow prevention (check valve) in your mainline seems dubious to me; installing one on the line to the floordrain would not help if you have other low fixtures in the basement. It seems solids would build up around the flapper seat or around the swing joint and not allow it to close properly. I do not have any experience with one installed; the heavyweights in repair experience on the forum may disagree.

 

[Gary Swart]

Here a possibility to explore. A number of years ago, I had sewage backup into my basement. It was like 6" deep. It happened around Christmas time when we were out of town, so it obviously was not our sewer line that was at fault. The city investigated and found that our sewer joined the main city line in a manhole. Their main line came down a hill, entered this manhole on one side and exited on the other. Our sewer dumped in between. At the top of the hill there was a KFC and their grease trap had failed which allowed huge amounts of chicken fat to be dumped into the sewer. Because of the hill and distance, the grease was still liquid until if dropped into the manhole. There is solidified into a ball which floated up and totally plugged the outlet side of the manhole. The sewage then just backed up into our line and basement. The city was responsible for the cleaning and sanitizing of our basement. I do not know if they fined the KFC, but they have continued a regular inspection of the man hole over the years. As I said, it's worth exploring the possibility. After that, go with the camera inspection. Until you identify the problem for sure, it's just guesswork.

 

[SewerRatz]

Naturally, the city wants you to jump through hoops to get something accomplished. My plumber is coming out tomorrow again with a thicker rod and a claw end to see if he can get more roots or find anything else. If that doesn't work, we'll have to do what the city says and get a camera in there and have one of their inspectors come out to watch it and find out if it is their issue or not.

I can only imagine it is their issue since there is so much water sitting in the lines.

The standpipe adapter did not unfortunately fit, i cranked it as tight as it would go and it was still off by a good 1/4".

My concern with putting a test cap on the floor drain is that it will come out of a different thing in the basement (IE Toilet, Shower, or the outside floor drain in the stairwell addition)... won't that happen if i cap off that floor drain?

If he has to come out with a thicker rod with a larger blade, makes me assume you did not call the guys I recommended. To power rod a main sewer for a house you need to rod with a machine large enough to clear the line as well he should of at least ran a 4" cutter through you sewer.

One other thing to check is your down spouts splashed or going into the ground? If they go into the ground and you have a blockage in you sewer it will flood your basement.

If you cap the floor drain water has to raise to the level of the next highest opening. Now you said the city said they are flowing just fine, which means it is not a city sewer problem. It is a problem with in your sewer line.

 

[mike04gt]

If you have other fixtures in the basement, yes the water would come out of them if the floor drain was plugged. It would come out of the shower (being lowest) first and then the toilet if the water level got higher than the rim.

I would still plug the floor drain and the shower if it is in the basement until you get this figured out. Your toilet rim is at least 15" high and I don't remember the water you had last time being this high. I would take any measure possible to eliminate having sewage in your basement!

2 and 2 are not adding up. If the city sewer is in fact not the culprit (which I highly doubt), there are only two possibilities of having water back up into your house. One is there is another sewer line tapped into yours before it empties into the main. If this is the case and there is blockage at the main, you get raw sewage backed up.

The other is if your sewer line is not graded properly to the street and there is a crack in it (tree root or some other cause). Water would enter the sewer line when the ground gets saturated and it flows back to your house instead of to the street. If this is the case, the water in your basement would only get as deep as the line is back-graded because once the water level rose in your basement higher than the back grade, the remainder would then run out into the sewer.

I don't see either of these as probable. I'm sure the city would be aggressive to not allow a building to bypass the fees incurred by tapping into their sewer. The second doesn't seem likely because I remember you had quite a bit of water in your basement and pieces of raw sewage. While the bits could have come from your lines, there would not have been many.

Scoping the line will tell all. It will be a very good investment for you. I would happily pay it and I am a loath to pay someone else to work on my house. Get a recording if possible, it will be ammunition when you deal with the real owner of the problem (the city). By the way, are any of your neighbors having the same problem?

Installing backflow prevention (check valve) in your mainline seems dubious to me; installing one on the line to the floordrain would not help if you have other low fixtures in the basement. It seems solids would build up around the flapper seat or around the swing joint and not allow it to close properly. I do not have any experience with one installed; the heavyweights in repair experience on the forum may disagree.

If the cutter he is bringing out today does not accomplish anything, I'm going to have to find someone to run a camera through it. The city actually requires and inspector to come out and view the camera while it is being ran to make sure where the problem is. But a tape of it wouldn't hurt for sure.

I'm just hoping there is more roots caught in there that he didn't get last time and can get them out today!

If he has to come out with a thicker rod with a larger blade, makes me assume you did not call the guys I recommended. To power rod a main sewer for a house you need to rod with a machine large enough to clear the line as well he should of at least ran a 4" cutter through you sewer.

One other thing to check is your down spouts splashed or going into the ground? If they go into the ground and you have a blockage in you sewer it will flood your basement.

If you cap the floor drain water has to raise to the level of the next highest opening. Now you said the city said they are flowing just fine, which means it is not a city sewer problem. It is a problem with in your sewer line.

I tried calling them, but didn't get a hold of them unfortunately. So I had a guy come out that Sunday to do it right away.

We have one main downspout on the house that goes into the ground, the roof is flat and slopes to the back of the house to this one main downspout that goes to the ground.

I'll have to mention this to him and see what he says, but it is in the back of the house, so it should still technically be a clog somewhere in the front of the house that won't allow that water to run through right?

 

[SewerRatz]

If he doesn't want to do the job right, give me a call just click on my sig for the website and ask for Ron. I will be more than happy to power rod your drain proper. I even carry a camera on the truck.

 

[NHmaster]

I think I would run a cam down the line and have a good look. If it checks out you may need a backwater valve installed.

 

[Kingsotall]

Sewer Ratz finally getting out there¿ 'Bout time.

 

[SewerRatz]

Sewer Ratz finally getting out there¿ 'Bout time.

I just hate parking out there. I drive one of the extra long Sprinters. If I was in my dad's old pickup I wouldn't mind it much. heck If we started to advertise in Chicago again our phone would ring off the wall. And as slow as things are getting we may start going back into that part of Chicago.