Water Softner White Residue

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Bannerman

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would I then set the K capacity to what is calculated based on your calculator

Correct. The Capacity setting should be the capacity the salt dose will regenerate, not the total capacity of the resin. A 6 lb salt setting is efficient and will regenerate 20K grains of usable capacity with 1 cuft of resin.

Gary indicated doing 2 - 15lb regen cycles as the entire capacity of your softener had been exhausted.

The DO (days override) setting is normally only utilized to force a regeneration if a regen cycle has not been performed within an extended time period such as when you are away on vacation. You could set the DO to a few days beyond the usual expected regeneration period.

As you state that your Model 100 default salt setting is 9.5 lbs, is your softener settings and capacity different than that indicated in the specifications linked to above, and the User manual here?: http://www.3mwater.com/media/catalog/product/pdfs/3MWTS_Manual.pdf

These PDF documents specify a manufacturer (3M) salt setting of 6 lbs to regenerate 21,600 grains of capacity while the maximum capacity is 29K when regenerating with 16 lbs of salt.
 

ByteMe

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I would think an easier way to regen back to max is just add 3 gallons of water, wait 3 hours and force regen... Do that twice.

This way no messing with settings.
 

Gary Slusser

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Adding 3 gals of water manually will probably overfill the salt tank because he has post refill and enough water to dissolve 6 lbs of salt (2 gallons). And if he does it this way then he has to wait 2 hrs (or more) for the additional water to dissolve salt or he doesn't get the full 15 lbs of salt. If the control valve adds the water, the water flow is a lot slower than pouring it out of a bucket or using a garden hose, and thereby the safety float will shut off the flow easily. A hose or bucket can go right past the safety float and over fill the tank allowing salt water to get on the floor.

Also, I screwed up.... my way is for Pre Refill where the valve waits for 2 hrs after adding the refill water before it goes into the regeneration.... so daniboi, change to Pre Refill when you change the salt dose and leave it there or go back to post Refill if you must. BTW, Pre happens at midnight then waits the 2 hrs and starts a regen at 2AM.
 

ByteMe

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5 gallons total water overfill a brine tank? That seems like a small brine tank.
 

daniboi81

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If you have the programming correct, all you change is the salt dose. When the two manual regens are finished, change the salt dose (to the 6 lbs) and hope the problem doesn't return. You should study the sizing page instead of using the calculator page.
I completed the regens and then adjusted the settings accordingly. The soft water has a salty taste to it which doesn't surprise me given how much I salt I just doused the resin with. Will this salty taste subside? I assume that future regens only using 6lbs of salt shouldn't result in as salty of water going forward.
 

Bannerman

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I suspect the brine draw/slow rinse cycle is not set long enough for an increased salt dose.

I had asked if your softener specs are identical to those in the linked documents as the linked User Manual indicates a pre-set brine draw/rinse cycle of 45 minutes total. The brine/rinse cycle for a 1 cuft softener is typically 60 minutes or 4X the actual time needed to draw brine from the brine tank. Since the linked user manual indicates 6 lbs is the manufacturer's salt setting, a 45 minute brine/rinse may just be long enough for 6 lbs but is likely not long enough for a higher salt dose.
 

Reach4

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Will this salty taste subside? I assume that future regens only using 6lbs of salt shouldn't result in as salty of water going forward.
Yes. The extra brine took extra time to draw out of the brine tank. The brine draw + slow rinse cycle are really the same timer-wise, but the cycle converts to slow rinse simply by the brine being done. There was not time for the slow rinse in the remainder of that fixed-length cycle.

You can regenerate one more time, and that should clear the salt during the regen, but it should gradually diminish with water use too.

If hardness happens late in the cycle again, I would bump the hardness setting on the controller up to 90 from 80. You are still going to have white residue when your water evaporates. I suggest a water test, including iron, manganese, silicon, sulfate on your raw water if you have not had one in the last several years. I like Kit60 http://www.karlabs.com/watertestkit/
 
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Bannerman

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If hardness happens late in the cycle again, I would bump the hardness setting on the controller up to 90 from 80.
R4, daniboi has reset the programmed hardness to the actual 60 grains and has reduced the programmed capacity to that which is being actually regenerated (20K with a 6 lb salt setting).
 

Reach4

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Thanks. I missed that. Any thoughts on this table? Clearly it is not used by most people. But I wonder if there is not a factor to take into account for really high hardness.
 

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ditttohead

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Actually, that table is used by most experienced commercial water treatment professionals. Since most residential systems regenerate with plenty of reserve capacity left, it is not as critical. Using this chart will greatly reduce the hardness leakage that is common in high hardness applications.
 

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I completed the regens and then adjusted the settings accordingly. The soft water has a salty taste to it which doesn't surprise me given how much I salt I just doused the resin with. Will this salty taste subside? I assume that future regens only using 6lbs of salt shouldn't result in as salty of water going forward.
Question... does the raw water have a salty taste? I have asked you to list/post all the programming data, both consumer and master. Without it there is no way to help you further.

I see there is a Turbulator distributor tube in you softener. I wonder if there is something wrong with it.
 

Reach4

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14 x 14 x 34.
So about 0.84 gallons per inch depth if just water, and maybe half that with salt pellets? So about 12 inches rise for 5 gallons or 6 inches if just water.

I wonder if solar salt or pellets has more space for water.
 

daniboi81

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Question... does the raw water have a salty taste? I have asked you to list/post all the programming data, both consumer and master. Without it there is no way to help you further.

I see there is a Turbulator distributor tube in you softener. I wonder if there is something wrong with it.
The raw water does not have a salty taste, maybe a small bitter taste, but that's it. As far as the specs, I'm re-including what I can get to based on my knowledge of the settings (with the adjustments I've made to the settings post regens). I've also included the diagnostics as well and filled in a few gaps from the master programming sections. If there are any other settings available on this model, I'd be interested to know how to get to them.

Consumer
Hardness: 60
Regen Day: 8
Regen Time: 2:00am

Here are the additional diagnostics from the 3MWTS100.
# Days Since Last Regeneration: 2
Gallons treated since last regeneration: 55
Gallons: reserve capacity used for last 7 days: A-0: 45
Current flow rate: 1.1 gal/min
Maximum flow rate for last seven days: 4.2 gal/min
Total gallons used since last reset: 14x1000
Total number of days since last reset: 346
Total number of regenerations since last reset: 45

Master Programming
Set: Softening
Capacity: 22.0 x 1000
Regen: 6.0 lbs
Regen: Normal | Backwash
Regen: Auto gals
Regen: Pre Fill
Regen: dn BRINE
Set Time Regen: normal
 

Bannerman

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Capacity: 22.0 x 1000
A 6 lb salt setting will usually regenerate 20.0 X 1000 grains capacity not 22K.

Since your water's hardness is so high, the hardness setting may need to be increased as per the Compensation Table shown in R4's post #30 above.
 

Gary Slusser

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I would use 20K instead of 22K with 6 lbs of salt but that's just me. Frankly I don't know how 3M is getting the figures they use with such small tanks and using an 8x44 tank for a 1.0 cuft or 10x44 for 1.5 and a 10x 54 for a 2.0 cuft..... And then a Turbulator in some if not all of them. Anyway, all we get to do now is use it and see what happens over the next week or so.

Do you see a current flow rate gpm whenever you are in the diagnosis section. or is the word Softening flashing constantly? If you do, make sure someone is using water, or the RO is or you have a leak which could be the cause of your present problem.
 

Bannerman

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Gary said:
or you have a leak which could be the cause of your present problem
A small amount of flow (ie: seeping toilet or dripping faucet) may not be detected by the softener flow sensor although the quantity can be significant over time. If that trickle is not recognized by the softener as being consumed, that can then result in running-out of soft water prior to regeneration.
 
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ditttohead

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Good point on the low flow, an undersink RO will usually be missed by the softener as well, that is usually part of the reserve most guys will put into the system. Whether it is tweaking the hardness up a bit, or cheating the salt an extra pound etc. Many ways to achieve this and since most softeners don't run to completely hard prior to regenerating...
 

daniboi81

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I would use 20K instead of 22K with 6 lbs of salt but that's just me. Frankly I don't know how 3M is getting the figures they use with such small tanks and using an 8x44 tank for a 1.0 cuft or 10x44 for 1.5 and a 10x 54 for a 2.0 cuft..... And then a Turbulator in some if not all of them. Anyway, all we get to do now is use it and see what happens over the next week or so.

Do you see a current flow rate gpm whenever you are in the diagnosis section. or is the word Softening flashing constantly? If you do, make sure someone is using water, or the RO is or you have a leak which could be the cause of your present problem.
I have the softener set now to the correct numbers (22k @ 6lbs, pre-fill brine, down flow regen). Working great in that aspect, but still have the white residue. Others on this post have mentioned this is normal and am willing to accept this, but want to make sure I'm not missing anything else. Will salt pellets vs. solar salt make any difference? I'm currently using up the remaining pellets, but purchased solar salt a few weeks back to try it out.
 
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