Water Softener & Whole House Filtration

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ellamas

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Hello,

First post here!

I've been on a path of researching water softeners and whole house filtration systems. Every time I feel I have a good handle on what I'm going to buy, I decide to do more research and change my mind. From what equipment to buy to whether I should have a licensed plumber install vs. DIY w/ help from contractor friend, etc.

So far, I learned tons from various sites including this forum (read lots of post for Dittohead among others) over the past several weeks. Started looking for a water softener since my municipal water service (yorba linda water district) has 18 to 22 GPG hardness...varies due to water being supplied by two sources. Later I decided to look at whole house filtration and looked at product like aquasana, pelican and others. Was about to get a Pelican PC600 but then ventured into the world of upflow vs. downflow systems w/ backwash.

Water quality & other pertinent info
- 1" main water supply
-22.6 GPG (max) hardness, chlorine and fluoride.
-table of full report attached to this thread
-4 to 5 people in the home
-3 bath
-water usage from 250 to 350 gallons per day (using 300gal/day average)
- based on my calc: 300 * 22.6 = 6780 grains/day required. assuming I'd like a 9 day regen cycle. = 61,020 grains.


Base on my research this is what I'm considering. Pricing is based on a recent quote I received this morning from a water filtration fleck dealer.

Softener:
-Fleck 5810 valve with XTR2 (touchscreen) Controller
-2.0 CF tank 64,000 grain, with 10% crosslink resin
-toyed with the idea of using potassium chloride vs. sodium chloride for water softener decided I'll stick with sodium chloride due to recurring cost. I can just bypass to water my plants without sodium.
$1800 equipment only

Whole house filtration:
-Same 5810 valve with sxt controller
-2.0 CF tank
- carbon only without KDF 55 (Fleck dealer I met with today said he could do a custom carbon blend based on my water quality.
$1200 equipment only

Drinking:
-RO system with possible Alkaline water combo.
$300 RO or $400 if combo RO & akaline (includes install)


Additional comments and questions:
-is this a good setup with three systems? My primarily goal is to eliminate hard water. Second is to remove some of the chlorine and other contaminants for the showers and bathing.,etc. Third, would be if I could add the RO and cancel my $50/ per month water deliver service.
-whole filtration would get plumbed first from the main inlet and water softener secondary inline. it was recommend not to install a sediment filter since it would be additional maintenance and frankly wouldn't need since the drinking water would have RO.
-should I still consider the Pelican PC600 filtration for around $750? this is an upflow non-backwash system. media is GAC with some KDF55. rated at 10gpm.

-The above pricing is for equipment only except for RO which includes install.
-Labor for Softener and whole house filtration is $550

-I later found out that this dealer is not a licensed plumber. Which is why the install price is reasonable vs. other plumbing quotes that I received. I received some quotes as high as $2500 for only install of the three systems.
-So labor at $550 is very reasonable. Although I believe he's trying to make up margin on the equipment? Can anyone comment on whether that equipment prices is good?
-I couldn't find the 5810 XTR2 softener system online, but did find the 5800 XTR2 for just above $1k. I know flow is a bit lower at around 21gpm but can also select 1" option. What other difference between the 5800 and the 5810?
-btw, I almost went with the 7000 valve until I found out that it had been discontinued.
-finally are their any local installers that anyone would recommend? Dittohead, after reading a bunch of your posts, I just today realized you are in Ontario, CA. would love any recommendations or input.

I'm in N. Orange County, CA

Appreciate the effort in reading this long post and thank you in advance for any replies.

Edgar
 

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ditttohead

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Since we are a system assembly company we do not sell direct but we do work with hundreds of dealers all over the US.

I know of several local installers, I will PM you my contact information. Please feel free to contact me and I can make some recommendations to some local guys that will take good care of you.
 

ellamas

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Since we are a system assembly company we do not sell direct but we do work with hundreds of dealers all over the US.

I know of several local installers, I will PM you my contact information. Please feel free to contact me and I can make some recommendations to some local guys that will take good care of you.


Thanks dittohead. Replied to your PM.

Are you (or others) able to comment on upflow vs. downflow filtraton? My options are Pelican PC600 (upflow) or a 2.0cf carbon tank with 5800/5810 (downflow with backwash). Is their a recommendation based on details from my original post?

Also, what is the difference between the the 5800 and 5810 if both can be ordered with 1" inlet and outlet?

Finally, anyone have input on a RO undersink system with combo alkaline water? I'd have a dual connection faucet for alkaline water and just RO. I know alkaline is not recommend just prior to a meal or a couple hours after.

Thanks
 

Bannerman

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I know alkaline is not recommend just prior to a meal or a couple hours after.
Where did you obtain that information?

We have an alkaline filter installed prior to our kitchen RO faucet whereas a non-alkaline RO faucet is located in the laundry room for filling a clothes iron and other purified water tasks.

While I can understand no alkaline so as to not reduce/dilute digestive tract acidity, it is commonly recommended that none or only a small amount of liquids should be consumed with or shortly after a meal for the same reason.
 

ellamas

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Where did you obtain that information?

We have an alkaline filter installed prior to our kitchen RO faucet whereas a non-alkaline RO faucet is located in the laundry room for filling a clothes iron and other purified water tasks.

While I can understand no alkaline so as to not reduce/dilute digestive tract acidity, it is commonly recommended that none or only a small amount of liquids should be consumed with or shortly after a meal for the same reason.


Honestly not sure, believe I read something online. Let me see if I can find it and confirm reliability of the source. Also, Alkaline water for medication intake is not recommended. Probably depends more on what type of medicine, but I'm not a doctor. I need to check source on that as well.
 

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Remineralization can be very good for making drinking water from RO water. That might make the pH around 7.5 or 8. It is adding calcium and magnesium mostly.
 

ditttohead

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We make the "Impact Alkaline" filter and many other brands. While I am not a believer in what many companies say about the alkaline water, I do believe that if it encourages you to drink more water... why not. I just cant buy into the crazy health claims some companies make. And... I do not want to, nor will I get into a debate about it. Been there, done that and since we are a manufacturer of the product...
 

ellamas

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Alkalinity aside, from my OP, anyone else have any input on upflow filtration vs downforce w/ backwash?

Based on recommendations from dittohead and others, I'm strongly leaning towards the latter. Looking for any last opinions or recommendations prior to finalizing my decision.
 

ditttohead

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We sell hundreds of upflow systems every month to many dealers all over the US. They are by far our most problematic systems. We only use special fine mesh heavy duty top screens which cost 10X more than the standard top screens to greatly reduce the problems. In the past 2 years, we have been able to switch most of our dealers to downflow but... the best way is with a backwash valve. I will post a video in a couple months of us extracting the carbon out of a non backwashing system, and the flow rate problems of the upflow systems. Both are done purely for marketing reasons. "No wasted water or electricity!". Notice they never say they p[at a lot less and charge you a lot more in their marketing?

As to the alkaline water debate, I supply and manufacture Alkaline filtration units, and in my very humble opinion, the real benefit to "alkaline" water filter systems is that many people do use these systems to help them to make lifestyle changes... drive by McDonalds rather than through it... drinking much more water etc... I do not claim that Alkaline water itself helps, but if that is what it takes to get you to change your lifestyle and get healthy...

I like the way the water tastes but I am not a proponent of companies making the wild claims that have become so common. Cancer.. diabetes.. heart problem, blood pressure etc... these claims should never be made but they are common.

The electronic systems neglect to inform you that they are basically separating the water into two streams, therefore the product and waste are concentrated. If you have negatively or positively charged contaminants, these will be in higher concentrations on either the product or waste side...
This topic is typically a 30 minute class session and that is keeping it to a minimum. I have done some class sessions on this that exceed an hour but it gets boring really quick. :)
 

ellamas

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This topic is typically a 30 minute class session and that is keeping it to a minimum. I have done some class sessions on this that exceed an hour but it gets boring really quick.

when can I attend your class? ;) I don't consider myself a boring person, but love learning more on new subjects.
 

ditttohead

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LOL, I travel all over the US and even to several other countries. I do regular training on other companies sites. Some companies want serious technical training, others want training on how to make homeowners happy with non traditional salt free systems, always a fun topic. The real technical training seminars are very dry, I try to keep people awake with lots of prizes but you can only make math equations and material application and design theory so exciting for so long. Monsters, coffee, and some entertaining videos thrown into the powerpoints all help too. My least favorite training is "EHS" stuff since it is not considered in good form to make training on how not to kill yourself or others, fun... :) It must be serious!

I am trying to arrange a training seminar with several manufacturers including Atlas Filtri, TST, Pentair, Stenner, Aquatec and more for this Summer or Fall in our new facility right next to Ontario Intl, airport. Everyone is invited and it is usually a fun event. As we get closer to setting the date I will post it here.
 

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