Water softener VS air injector

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by Martin35, Jul 26, 2013.

  1. Martin35

    Martin35 New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Québec, Canada
    I need advice. I had my well water tested and here is what I got :

    PH : 8
    Total hardness : 7
    Iron : 0.4

    I’m also having some sulfur odour in the shower only (hot water), nowhere else except for some occasional and almost unnoticeable occurrence in both hot and cold water in other faucets. But I’m worried to see this odor getting worst.

    We are 4 people living in a 2 bathroom house (1 showers, 1 bath). My pump is rated at 12GPM and I get about 10 GPM at the pressure tank.

    For this year I would like to spend around 1000$, I see two options :

    Option 1
    - Install a 1.5pounds water softener to get rid of hardness and iron ( which is staining overtime).
    - Change the water heater anode for an aluminum one for the odor in hot water.
    - Install a carbon filter (20†big blue) for the slight odor in cold water and hope for the best.

    Option 2
    -Install an air injector system (Terminator)with a mixing tank and iron filter for both Iron and sulfur.
    -Install a water softener next year ( Since the air injector set-up is around 1000$).

    Thank you for your help and sorry for my poor English skills (I’m French Canadian)

    Martin
  2. mialynette2003

    mialynette2003 Member

    Messages:
    746
    Location:
    Ocala, Florida
    If the sulfur is slight, I would go with option# 1. Your iron is not bad enough to use the air injection. I'm not fond of the air injection systems. I've seen ones that cause a back pressure on the well pump enough to pop the pressure relief valve. You could also try raising the temperture of the heater to see if the odor goes away.
  3. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,183
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    +1 on raising the temperature.

    It sounds like the smell is not from the well so I doubt aeration would help.
  4. Martin35

    Martin35 New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Québec, Canada
    Thanks for the input

    I wonder if adding a mediaguard with KDF85 media in the water softener may be a alternative to the carbon filter ? I'm also wondreing if it's restricting the flow thru the water softener?

    Thanks
  5. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,938
    Location:
    Ontario California
    We do a lot of media guards with KDF55 and 85. They work well, but it is critical the backwash flow control be set correctly. In most applications, a 4.5 GPM DLFC button works best. The flow will be reduced with the media guard but most people will not notice. Depending on several variables, you can expect good flow, up to 8-10 GPM without a problem through the media-guard.
  6. Martin35

    Martin35 New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Québec, Canada
    Are you talking about a separate filter unit or something added to the softener like that :

    http://www.qualitywatertreatment.com/water_softeners_fleck_7000SXT.htm#kdf

    And if it's what your talking about, is this addition affect the softener sizing ?
  7. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,938
    Location:
    Ontario California
    mediaguard1.jpg

    The media guard goes inside the tank and does not affect capacity, the only change is in the DLFC rate. it is critical for the media guard to last that it be backwashed at 4-5 GPM.

    We only recommend it for 2 bathroom houses and smaller due to its flow restriction potential.
  8. Martin35

    Martin35 New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Québec, Canada
    I'm poosibly looking to buy online a Fleck 7000SXT 40000 grains (if I go the water softener way). If I understand well the DLFC is a kind of orifice flow control (the bigger the hole the bigger the flow). Is different capacity
    DFLC are available ?

    Thanks

    Martin
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2013
  9. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    The Media Guard is not a good thing and especially for your water quality issues, and it is expensive to buy and maintain.

    Raise the temp on your water heater to 140f, don't use hot water for a couple hours and then reset it to what it was. That will kill the harmless reducing type bacteria (IRB and/or SRB) responsible for hot water only odor creation. Replacingthe anode rod with a different type metal one may not cure the problem. Especially if you scrape off any of the old rod as you remove it and the material falls down into the tank. I've never seen a tank type water heater that will allow you to totally drain all the water out to flush off the bottom of the tank.... The drain valve is up on the side allowing a couple inches of gunk to stay in the tank after draining the tank.

    The DLFC controls the gpm of the discharge water flow during regeneration. It is part of the control valve and its size is determined by the type and cuft volume of the resin in the resin tank. The flow controls are usually added to the control valve by the dealer's distributor or the dealer as they build the softener. Same for the BLFC.
  10. Martin35

    Martin35 New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Québec, Canada
    Thank you for the advices.

    As my plan don’t seems to make consensus, what about start from scratch ?

    For you guys what would be the ideal set-up (equipment) for my water properties ?

    Thanks again

    Martin
  11. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,938
    Location:
    Ontario California
    I am not a big fan of the Media Gurds, but the companies that sell them and that know how to work with them swear by them. I have installed a few in my relatives houses to reduce the Chlorine and it is highly effective for that. For other treatment methods, it is very hit and miss.

    You need to start with turning your water heater up to the max for a few hours, using extreme caution that no kids or elderly have access to the hot water as extreme burns can occur almost instantly at these elevated temperatures. Once this is done, see if the Sulfur smell returns. If it is only on the hot water side, it is unlikely that you will need much water treatment.

    If it is on the cold and hot water side, their are many options available to you. Lets start with the heating of the water to see if this takes care of the problem temporarily. If the smell returns only on the hot water side, it is probably coming from your sacraficial anode and that should be replaced with a different type.

    The DLFC is determined by the media type, water temperature, and tank dimension, as well as a few special factors that need to be considered seperately. Turbulators and media Guards are the most common reasons to use a flow control that ignore the normal rules of Flow control sizing.
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
  12. Martin35

    Martin35 New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Québec, Canada
    Thanks

    I will try the water heater temp raise and see what happened. On the other hand I think I will need something to get rid of Iron, but let's try one thing at a time.

    Martin
  13. Martin35

    Martin35 New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Québec, Canada
    Guys

    Yesterday I’ve raised my water heater temp to the maximum (150F)for the whole night (at least 8hrs) and I did not see any improvement this morning. I will describe the situation more in detail to give you a better picture :

    -I have odor only in the shower which is the last faucets on my main line. I have odor only for the first shower of the day for about 30 seconds, as soon as the water is hot the odor goes away.

    I’ve also take a water sample directly from the water heater (thru the relief valve) and there is no odor. It looks like the odor is coming from cooled down hot water in the end of the main line. BTW my plumbing network is two main (hot and cold) with branch to different faucets (see sketch).

    Like I said earlier I also have slight odor in cold water occasionally (last week I had some, this week nothing).

    Thank you again

    Martin

    Attached Files:

  14. mialynette2003

    mialynette2003 Member

    Messages:
    746
    Location:
    Ocala, Florida
    The odor could be coming from the drain. Try pouring some chlorine down the drain to see if it kills the smell.
  15. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Otherwise raising the temp of the heater (disinfecting it which ) killed the bacteria and you have flushed out the hot water line to the shower of viable bacteria and hence now no more odor.
  16. Martin35

    Martin35 New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Québec, Canada
    I've tried pouring water from the shower directly in a bucket and smell it. The odor is in the water.

    Thanks
  17. Martin35

    Martin35 New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Québec, Canada
    I had this exact same odor before the water heater temp raise. The temp raise did not change anything to my problem.

    Thank you guys for your help

    Martin
  18. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Raising the temp of the heater kills bacteria that create the gas that causes the odor but the higher temp does not get rid of the gas or odor. You need to use hot water to get the gas/odor out of the tank.
  19. Martin35

    Martin35 New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Québec, Canada
    I use the hot water for 2 days now without any change. Do you think I need to completely drain thw water heater and fill it with fresh water ?

    Thanks
  20. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    No. I'm questioning if the water heater got up to 150f or... if you don't have a contaminated shower head or.... naturally occurring H2S gas. To test for H2S in the cold water, get a bucket and get your nose on its rim as you run cold water into the bucket at a tub and/or outside faucet and as the water is running into the bucket at a high rate, smell the air leaving the bucket.
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