Water Softener Sizing - Need your input.

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KiraMax2002

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I am interested in purchasing a Fleck 5600sxt and using calculators online, I think a 48,000 grain would suit me but I wanted to get your input.


I calculated our water hardness to be about 22-25 as that's the high end of the range. Our water comes from the city and the report can be found here:
http://www.camrosa.com/documents/CCRs/Camrosa 2014 CCR .pdf

There are two people in the house right now and we just moved in so it is hard to determine what our usage is so I have been using the 75g average. There is the expectation that at some point we will have a child and a third person in the house so I want something that we won’t outgrow in a few years (yet is still efficient now).

I understand that we want something that has at least 20% reserve.

So, it looks like I can get away with a 48,000 given 75 gallons x 2 people x 25 hardness x 10 days (manually set) = 37,500

For three people, I could expect 225 gallons (75*3) x 25 hardness x 7 days = 39,375

Aside from that, I was thinking that 3/4 inch stainless threaded connection would be good since we have 3/4 inch going to the water heater. I also did’t think we needed a turbolator since our water didn’t have any iron. Also, programming/salt doses seem overwhelming - would you able to provide guidance on that later on?

Thank you for your help!
 

Reach4

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You are thinking right. With http://www.qualitywaterassociates.com/sizing.php 23 grains, I get 1.5 cuft suggested with 2 people, and 2 cuft with 3 people (18o GPD) as its recommendation. The bigger softener will give you some margin and save a bit of salt. They both will be useful. Your numbers are very close.

One difference in your calculation vs that calculator is that you are presuming a little higher salt dose than the calculator is.

Your thought about the 3/4 is OK, but I presume you will be softening your cold and your hot. So I would be thinking about the pipe size before the hot and cold separate. Also remember to pipe your hose bibs that you will use for watering to hard water.
 

ditttohead

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Feeding hot water only to a house is not inherently a bad idea, but for full affect of the softening it is recommended to feed both the hot and cold water supply. If you have a tankless water heater the affects can be much better with a little trickery.
 

KiraMax2002

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I'm sorry, I didn't articulate it very well but both hot and cold water will be softened. The previous homeowners had a water softener previously and the hook ups happens to be by the water heater.
 

Bannerman

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A softener should be programmed for the highest hardness level anticipated, not an average.

While the total volume of resin has an established softening capacity, that entire capacity is not generally planned to be utilized before regeneration occurs. Salt efficiency maybe greatly increased by utilizing a portion of the total capacity, and then regenerating with substantially less salt.

The sizing calculator which R4 provided the link to, shows various salt settings along the bottom of the page. It is recommended to enter your particulars at the top of the page and then choose a softener size to satisfy your consumption requirements while using a 6 or 8 pound salt setting per cuft. With no iron in your water, you would want to regenerate no more than 1X per week but the regeneration frequency could be extended as there is no iron for the softener to deal with.

A 6 or 8 lb/cuft salt setting will normally provide 3333 or 3000 grains per pound salt efficiency whereas utilizing the entire capacity will require 15 lbs/cuft which will at best, provide an efficiency of only 2000 grains per pound.
 

KiraMax2002

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A softener should be programmed for the highest hardness level anticipated, not an average.

While the total volume of resin has an established softening capacity, that entire capacity is not generally planned to be utilized before regeneration occurs. Salt efficiency maybe greatly increased by utilizing a portion of the total capacity, and then regenerating with substantially less salt.

The sizing calculator which R4 provided the link to, shows various salt settings along the bottom of the page. It is recommended to enter your particulars at the top of the page and then choose a softener size to satisfy your consumption requirements while using a 6 or 8 pound salt setting per cuft. With no iron in your water, you would want to regenerate no more than 1X per week but the regeneration frequency could be extended as there is no iron for the softener to deal with.

A 6 or 8 lb/cuft salt setting will normally provide 3333 or 3000 grains per pound salt efficiency whereas utilizing the entire capacity will require 15 lbs/cuft which will at best, provide an efficiency of only 2000 grains per pound.

Im sorry but the extent of my knowledge on these things are quite narrow so I don't quite follow.

What exactly are the implications of the 3,3333 grains per pound salt efficiency? Moreover, how does salt efficiency relate to a 48,000 softener given my parameters?

Edit: okay i went to the link and plugged my numbers in. Using that, as i get a 48,000 grain softener, would I program it to 40,000, do a salt dose of 12 lbs and go 11 days between regeneration?
 

Reach4

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Edit: okay i went to the link and plugged my numbers in. Using that, as i get a 48,000 grain softener, would I program it to 40,000, do a salt dose of 12 lbs and go 11 days between regeneration?
12 pounds of salt in a 1.5 cubic ft softener gives 8 pounds of salt per cubic ft. That corresponds to C (capacity) of 36000 grains per the table.
 

Bannerman

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You would be best to not think of 48,000 grains as the capacity you will be using before the softener regenerates. A slightly larger softener (more capacity than you think you need) will use less salt (more salt efficient) than a smaller capacity softener delivering the same amount of soft water.

Using your figures, your hardness removal requirements are 3750 grains/day (75 gallons/day X 2 people X 25 grains per gallon hardness).

While a 1.5 cuft softener has a total rated capacity of 48K grains, regenerating that amount of capacity would require 27 lbs of salt. As total capacity will decrease over time, most capacity calculations are based on 45K grains capacity in 1.5 cuft of softening resin which would require 22.5 lbs of salt each regeneration to restore that capacity.

45K / 3750 (your daily requirement) would require regeneration every 12 days.

A 2 cuft (64K grains total capacity) softener would require only 16 lbs of salt to regenerate 48K of capacity. The regeneration frequency would be 12-13 days.

I expect you can appreciate the larger softener will deliver the same amount of soft water, but will use far less salt to do so. As you are planning to expand your family by at least one additional person, you may wish to consider a 2.5 cuft unit.
 

ENIGMA-2

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A slightly larger softener (more capacity than you think you need) will use less salt (more salt efficient) than a smaller capacity softener delivering the same amount of soft water.
Question comes to mind. Is there a limit as to how much capacity, is too much? (If there is such a limit).
 

Reach4

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Question comes to mind. Is there a limit as to how much capacity, is too much? (If there is such a limit).

For people using the softener to also deal with iron should regenerate more frequently... maybe every 3 days in some cases. For them, extra capacity is more wasteful. For those doing chlorinated water, there is no iron to deal with.

The other case would be not having enough GPM available to backwash a big unit. That will not be a problem for you with 2 cuft.
 

KiraMax2002

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Is 25 grams an appropriate number to use for the calculation given that only a very small percent of municipal water is sourced from very hard water. 80% is closer to 22 gpm.

Also, I'm a little confused as to why I couldn't just regenerate a 48k with greater frequency?
 

Reach4

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Also, I'm a little confused as to why I couldn't just regenerate a 48k with greater frequency?
You can.

The way the demand softener works is each night at 2 AM, if there is less than one day of reserve remaining, the softener regens. On average there will be 1/2 day of capacity left unused. If you regen about every 6 days, that 1/2 day is more significant than if you regen about every 12 days.

Either size will work great for you. The price difference is usually fairly small. If the 10 inch diameter tank fits your space better than a 12 inch, go with the 1.5.

You probably do want to get an Hach 5B hardness test. You can use it to check your incoming water, and you can use it to test your softened water.
 

ditttohead

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Question comes to mind. Is there a limit as to how much capacity, is too much? (If there is such a limit).
Of course. There is a point of diminishing return, and resin should be regenerated at least occasionally. Many people consider weekly to be important, but real world experience and application has shown that monthly is fine. So a location with very low hardness and low water usage but with a need for a high intermittent flow rate may only regenerate every month or so. Modern systems typically have an automated regeneration override that causes the system to regenerate every 28 (or whatever it is programmed for) whether it needs to or not. Massively oversizing a unit can be wasteful if you never reach the systems capacity.
 

KiraMax2002

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Of course. There is a point of diminishing return, and resin should be regenerated at least occasionally. Many people consider weekly to be important, but real world experience and application has shown that monthly is fine. So a location with very low hardness and low water usage but with a need for a high intermittent flow rate may only regenerate every month or so. Modern systems typically have an automated regeneration override that causes the system to regenerate every 28 (or whatever it is programmed for) whether it needs to or not. Massively oversizing a unit can be wasteful if you never reach the systems capacity.
So is the consensus that a 64,000 would be an appropriate one for us?
 
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