Water seeping into toilet bowl

[prwood]

About a year ago, we started noticing a slow seep of water entering our toilet bowl from a spot on the front of the rim. At the time we didn't take any steps to address it because it didn't seem like a ton of water, it wasn't causing a mess and the toilet was still flushing normally. A few months after we first noticed it, we received a letter from our city's water department letting us know that they had registered some periods of our water meter running continuously, which could indicate a water leak. I had received a water bill since then and it wasn't drastically different from our other bills, so I didn't do anything at that point (we had lots of bigger stuff on our plate...). However, after looking for leaks elsewhere in the house, and receiving several follow-up letters, we decided we had better try to address the toilet issue.

So far, we've tried the following:

1. Inspected and cleaned flush valve and flapper.
2. Replaced flapper with universal flapper: https://www.korky.com/products/flapper-seal-replacements/premium-universal-flapper
3. Replaced all components in the tank and the tank-to-bowl gasket using this kit: https://www.korky.com/products/fill...ents-kits/quietfill-platinum-universal-toilet

After all of these, the toilet is still operating as before, in terms of flushing normally and no leaks outside of the tank or bowl. However, we still have the same amount of seepage coming into the toilet bowl. If I add 10 drops of food dye to the tank, after 10 minutes I don't see any dye in the bowl. Most of the dye drains into the bowl on the first flush after this, and the rest of it drains on the second flush. I'm not really sure where the water could be coming from if no dye is entering the bowl, unless 10 minutes wasn't long enough to wait.

Any other troubleshooting suggestions?

Is there any chance that the water seeping into the bowl is NOT a problem, and that we should be looking harder for a leak elsewhere?

Thanks for any advice you can give!

 

[Reach4]

1. How far below the overflow intake is the water level? 1/2 inch is typical. If water is higher, adjust down.
2. The refill hose should be held above the overflow intake. If the hose goes into the overflow, you can get siphoning.
3. It is possible for water to climb some clips with capillary action. Look for a tiny flow inside the overflow at the clip.
4. A crack in the overflow tube is rare but possible. If you turn off the supply valve, what happens to the water level in the toilet over a few hours?

Some of the flaws would cause the fill valve to turn on periodically. You did not describe such a symptom.

we started noticing a slow seep of water entering our toilet bowl from a spot on the front of the rim.

That flow that you see into the bowl is why the toilet is suspect. There could be a leak elsewhere, but would not cause you to see flow in the toilet bowl.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[prwood]

1. How far below the overflow intake is the water level? 1/2 inch is typical. If water is higher, adjust down.
2. The refill hose should be held above the overflow intake. If the hose goes into the overflow, you can get siphoning.
3. It is possible for water to climb some clips with capillary action. Look for a tiny flow inside the overflow at the clip.
4. A crack in the overflow tube is rare but possible. If you turn off the supply valve, what happens to the water level in the toilet over a few hours?

Some of the flaws would cause the fill valve to turn on periodically. You did not describe such a symptom.

That flow that you see into the bowl is why the toilet is suspect. There could be a leak elsewhere, but would not cause you to see flow in the toilet bowl.

1. Initially, the water level was right at the level of the overflow intake. I moved the fill valve down so now the water level is about 1" below the intake.
2. The refill hose is positioned right at the top of the overflow intake. it does not go down into the tube. It has a metal clip holding it at an angle just at the edge of the opening.
3. This may have been happening when the water level was higher, but I don't see any water touching the clip now.
4. I turned off the supply valve and marked the water level in the tank. After two hours the water level in the tank had gone down about 1/8". I've looked for signs of cracks on the overflow pipe (visually checking for cracks, and looking for air bubbles forming in any spot) and haven't seen anything.

Apparently the fill valve was coming on more frequently before I started troubleshooting. My hearing isn't great but my wife could hear it, and she says she's not hearing it anymore.

I'm wondering if there's a very small crack in the tank just around the flush valve that is allowing just a small seep of water to get through, or a crack in the base of the overflow tube that I can't see. It must be very small, otherwise I'd expect the water level in the tank to go down faster when the supply valve is turned off.

 

[Reach4]

The most likely your new flapper is leaking. Shut off the supply water. Optionally dip out all but a few inches of water if you want to accelerate the test. See at what level the water stops dropping. If that is at the flapper, the leak is at the flapper. If lower, then the leak is lower.

 

[prwood]

The most likely your new flapper is leaking. Shut off the supply water. Optionally dip out all but a few inches of water if you want to accelerate the test. See at what level the water stops dropping. If that is at the flapper, the leak is at the flapper. If lower, then the leak is lower.

I'll give it a try.

 

[Jadnashua]

Sometimes, depending on how the flapper valve is stored, it can develop a little warp or, more rarely, has a mold line or blister in it.
Some universal flappers have multiple ways to attach them, and if it has lugs to attach it to the overflow and you use the ring slid over the thing, and it isn't the right size, it can distort the flapper and it won't seal. It's one or the other, not both. If your toilet has lugs and the flapper has both methods, the instructions usually tell you to cut out the ring.

I've noticed some flappers, especially those that aren't in a protective bubble packaging, end up warped. If stored at excessive temperatures, they can be warped, too.

I've usually had good luck with Korky flappers, but others can be good as well.

If you haven't adjusted the chain properly, it can be putting a little tension on the flapper, not letting the water pressure push down enough to seal it. If the arm pulling the thing up to flush is offset, that sideways strain can warp a flapper. Man of the flush arms have more than one hole in them...use the one that is closest to plumb with the middle of the flapper valve. IF it's off a lot, you can often carefully bend the arm a little.

If you run your finger over the flapper valve seat, is it all nice and smooth?

The nut that holds the flush valve to the tank may need to be tightened slightly.

If the unfinished surface of the tank is a bit rough, it can help to run some sandpaper or emery cloth over it to smooth it, then reinstall the thing. The gasket usually can seal, but may take a bit more pressure if it's rough. Smoothing it can make it seal easier.