Water Pressure not sustaining 50psi (cut off pressure)

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RobN

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First post here on the forums and fairly new to being a home owner in general and dealing with a well system.

The Problem: The pressure gauge next to my pressure switch is reading 30 PSI when i have a 30/50 switch. When i run a faucet for 30 seconds the well pump kicks on and you can see the pressure shoot up to 50 and then fall instantly back to 30. It will doing this several times and then shut off. My water pressure if consistent and sufficient but this is causing a lot of cycling that i don't want on the pump.

I have 3 pressure tanks that are all about 40 gallons. I know one of them has a bad bladder in it but i have the other 2 checked to 28 PSI when they are empty. Also, I do not lose pressure over time and I've checked for leaks in the house.

I did just replaced the pressure switch and gauge this last weekend hoping it would be a quick fix but I still have the same results.

I'm thinking of taking the pressure tank and capping that end of the line to see if it fixes the issue (maybe too much water for the pump to hold that pressure to. I initially didn't think this should be an issue based on what i've read (when you have multiple tanks, as long as 1 has the correct pressure then you are fine, the other can be significantly lower). Allowing this one to sit there just gave me extra reserve.

Just as a side note i dont have any info about the pump in the ground other than that it was replaced ~5 years ago.

Questions:
Should taking out this pressure tank reduce teh stress and allow me to fully charge the system to 50psi?
If not what else should i look for?
Regardless does i really need 120 gallows for a 2.5 bathroom house? I would think 80 should be plenty.
Including a diagram of my setup just in case i wast clear.
well water diagram.jpg


Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Answer:
So the problem ended up being resolved by the ruptured bladder in the one tank. Since the entire thing was water logged and there was no diaphragm to push against the pressure switch would read max pressure too soon and the system wouldn't fully charge to 50 psi...
 
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Wondering

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First post here on the forums and fairly new to being a home owner in general and dealing with a well system.

The Problem: The pressure gauge next to my pressure switch is reading 30 PSI when i have a 30/50 switch. When i run a faucet for 30 seconds the well pump kicks on and you can see the pressure shoot up to 50 and then fall instantly back to 30. It will doing this several times and then shut off. My water pressure if consistent and sufficient but this is causing a lot of cycling that i don't want on the pump.

I have 3 pressure tanks that are all about 40 gallons. I know one of them has a bad bladder in it but i have the other 2 checked to 28 PSI when they are empty. Also, I do not lose pressure over time and I've checked for leaks in the house.

I did just replaced the pressure switch and gauge this last weekend hoping it would be a quick fix but I still have the same results.

I'm thinking of taking the pressure tank and capping that end of the line to see if it fixes the issue (maybe too much water for the pump to hold that pressure to. I initially didn't think this should be an issue based on what i've read (when you have multiple tanks, as long as 1 has the correct pressure then you are fine, the other can be significantly lower). Allowing this one to sit there just gave me extra reserve.

Just as a side note i dont have any info about the pump in the ground other than that it was replaced ~5 years ago.

Questions:
Should taking out this pressure tank reduce teh stress and allow me to fully charge the system to 50psi?
If not what else should i look for?
Regardless does i really need 120 gallows for a 2.5 bathroom house? I would think 80 should be plenty.
Including a diagram of my setup just in case i wast clear.
View attachment 29822

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
 

Wondering

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You could turn off power, drain all the tanks, then add air to the bad tank to bring it back to 28psi. Then turn pump back on and see how that does since you are thinking it is the bad tank, that would tell you for sure. But--you will need to add air to the bad tank(more than 28psi) just to get all the water out of it. Then adjust to 28. What brand tanks do you have? This was just a thought but I am sure Valveman is correct cause he knows way more than me about this stuff.
 

Reach4

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You want to have a good pressure tank very close to the pressure switch. Wondering's suggestion could give you a temporary good tank for comparison depending how bad the bladder is.
 

RobN

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Thanks. So the tank closest with the ruptured bladder is completely full, I'm not sure there will be any recovery. I can always try what was recommended before I pull it out though. If neither of those work I will have to look at the check valve. Hopefully it's not galvanized pipe running down there!
 

RobN

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I can't remember the brands off the top of my head but I know one of the bad one and one of the good ones are the same brand + another brand.

Valveman do you think this is even worth while? The tanks are virtually equidistant.
 

Valveman

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Well the tank or tanks maybe bad, but if the pump comes back on when you are not using water there is either a hole in the pipe somewhere or the check valve is not working.

A 120 gallon tank only holds about 30 gallons of water, an 80 gallon only holds 25. Your water doesn't come from the tank(s), it comes from the pump. The tanks are only there to reduce the number of on/off cycles from the pump. If you have a CSV to eliminate the cycling, a 4.5 gallon size tank that holds 1 gallon of water is all you need.
 

RobN

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Thad the thing, I'm not losing pressure with out running some kinda of faucet.

My system isn't staying at 50psi. I just see the following
  • pressure guage next to my pressure switch sit at 30 psi
  • I turn a faucet on for 30 seconds And lump kicks on
  • Pressure guage spikes to 50, pump kicks off and pressure guage immediately drops back to 30.
Your explanation of the check valve makes sense since his would allow the water to flow back, but why retain the 30 psi?

sorry if I'm being a newbie here o_O
 

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You turn on the faucet for 30 seconds:
  1. Pump runs how long?
  2. Pump runs how many times-- just once for that faucet use?
  3. How much pipe is between your pressure switch and your nearest good pressure tank?
  4. What size is that pipe?
 

Valveman

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I agree with Reach, it sounds like your pressure switch is too far away from the pressure tank, or there is a restriction in the tank fitting. The pressure switch is seeing 50 PSI before the tank is filled. As soon as the pump shuts off the pressure drops back to 30, because that is all that is in the tank.
 

RobN

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You turn on the faucet for 30 seconds:
  1. Pump runs how long? Pump kicks on for maybe 2-3 seconds
  2. Pump runs how many times-- just once for that faucet use? continuously as i run water. maybe a 4-5 cycles after i shut off
  3. How much pipe is between your pressure switch and your nearest good pressure tank? ball park 3 foot
  4. What size is that pipe? i believe 1" but i'll have to confirm this when i get home

Answered questions as well as i can from work.
 

Reach4

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Your answers confirm the suspicion-- that the pressure switch is too far from a working pressure tank.

Move your pressure switch to a working pressure tank, or move a working pressure tank to the switch.

However it is important that there not be a shutoff valve between the pump and the pressure switch.
 

RobN

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Thanks!!! You think it just makes more sense to swap the bad tank for a brand new one versus rearranging? Not that i want to spend the money on it, i figure its probably a worthy investment.
 

Reach4

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Thanks!!! You think it just makes more sense to swap the bad tank for a brand new one versus rearranging? Not that i want to spend the money on it, i figure its probably a worthy investment.
Yes. However with only 3 ft to a good tank, I would have expected the symptoms to not be that bad. I still think that a new tank at the pressure switch will give an instant cure.

With the 30 PSI cut on, set the pressure tank air precharge to 28 PSI if your pump is submersible. Go 26 PSI if you have a jet pump. You could do that even before installing.

With your multiple tank setup, the one at the pressure switch does not need to be the biggest one.
 
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RobN

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Woohoo got the new tank installed and cleaned out some of the mess they had down there! good news I'm holding pressure and the well doesn't kick on immediately and do the weird jump to 50 psi multiple times in a row thing.

Before with the bad tank on the right:


After:
 

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RobN

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Oddly enough my pressure just never reaches 50 psi. I ran the water for 10 minutes and the water pressure doesnt drop. I ran all the faucets in the house and I heard the pump
Kick in...but I go back down there and there and the pressure is still about 35..I'm thinking to replace the piping that leads to the copper to going to the house to remove a possibly problematic shut off valve and old dirty pipe
 

Reach4

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I am glad that your system is working a lot better.

Is your pump a jet pump or submersible (in the well)? I am presuming a jet pump because you can hear the pump.

How long does the pump now at minimum? I hope it is a minute or longer.

That looks like your pressure gauge is horizontal near the pressure switch. I am wondering how the pump shuts off while the gauge stays at 35 or less. If the pressure was still staying low, I would suspect the pump -- particularly the jet needing cleaning. Yet the pump turns off.
 

RobN

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I just purchased this house 3 months ago and i was only told by the previous owner that she had it replaced roughly 5 years ago so i'm not sure. The pump is definitely in the well but like you said i can hear it. I know the wells around here dont have to be deep though(60ish feet i believe) so i'm not sure if that would allow me to hear a submersible as well.

I was trying to get some kinda of measure for what it would take to kick the pump back on...just running one faucet didnt do the trick. I will have to have the wife turn on all the faucets again tomorrow and i'll hang in the crawl to see at what pressure it's kicking on.

It does run for a lot longer than it has previously and it runs a lot quieter since it kicks on and actually stays on. Its making it a little bit harder to determine things.

I'll report back my findings. I'm also working with a very knowledgeable plumbing shop in the next town over. He is the one that suggested checking the pipes to see how clocked they were/swapping them for PVC and getting a new shut off valve right there. I also wouldn't mind having all 3 tanks split off from the same point which this would allow me to do.
 

RobN

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I'm also wondering how the pump manages to charge back up...I'm wondering if i replaced the pressure switch with one that wasn't calibrated correctly?(slim chance that's the issue as easy as that would be to fix. )
 
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