Water Heater Tank Into Steam Maker?

Users who are viewing this thread

Timmyj

New Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Indonesia
Hello,

I want to hack a gas water heater to make steam for a steam room I am building in my backyard.

After looking at the anatomy of my friend's custom built steam boiler that he uses for his steam room and the anatomy of an average gas water heater, they appear very similar. His boiler is basically an oversize soup pot with a cone shaped lid that hinges on. You can loosen the hinges and take the lid off in order to scrub the inside but he says he only needs to do this once a year. At the top of the cone is a 2 inch ubend pipe that connects to a 1 inch pipe that directs the steam into the steam room. He fills his "boiler pot" with a few inches of water and heats it on high flame until it starts to boil, then he lowers the flame and keeps it on a simmering boil, which provides enough steam to keep an 8ft by 8ft by 7ft high space nice and hot and steamy for an hour or so. The steam is continuously piped into the steam room and at no time does any steam pressure build up. As it is created by the boiling water, the steam rises and goes through the pipe into the steam room.

My thought is to do the same function with a water heater. I will create a new 2inch hole at the the top of the tank and weld in a fitting to attach to my 1 inch pipe that will run to my steam room. Then, I will manually fill the tank maybe only a 1/4 full with water. Then , I will control the gas flame manually and heat it until all the water is boiling. Then i will lower the flame and keep it on a simmering boil which should provide lots of steam to my steam room. Ideally, I want to be able to provide continous steam for up to 8-12 hours for all day parties. I wonder if there is some equation for how much time it takes a certain volume of boiling water to turn into steam?

What are your thoughts? Do you think it is possible? Safety concerns?

I wonder about the shape of the top of the water heater. If i make a 2 inch hole in the top of the water heater and weld in a pipe fitting , do you think the hole will be big enough to encourage the steam to exit? My friends boiler has a cone shaped top, it seems to funnel the steam into the exit pipe; but is this necessary? If all the other valves in the heater are closed, wont the steam naturally take the path of least resistance and exit through the open pipe into the steam room?

Thanks for reading,
Much appreciation for any feedback!
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,770
Reaction score
1,190
Points
113
Location
New England
I doubt any home inspector would sanction this. So many ways for this to go wrong. The walls of the tank are fairly thin, and boiling it dry would likely damage it beyond repair if something didn't blow up or burn down first.
 

Gary Swart

In the Trades
Messages
8,101
Reaction score
84
Points
48
Location
Yakima, WA
I'm pretty sure your insurance would be void. Stupid idea. Sorry, that's just telling you straight out.
 

Timmyj

New Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Indonesia
An open pipe?
They do make steam equipment made for that purpose.


This water heater was airborne for 16 seconds after the explosion.
Please don't to this.

Here are some steam generators
http://www.us.kohler.com/us/browse/Bathroom-Showering-Steam/_/N-259p

Nice video! Steam power!

All the models available run off of electric. I need propane heated as I am off grid.

Yes, in my friend's boiler, the 2 inch "open pipe" comes off the top, down sizes into a 1 inch pipe and goes into the steam room and is open on the end where the steam comes out, no cap, no valve, just the open end of the pipe.

This means that no pressure ever builds up inside the boiler. As the steam comes off the boiling water, it exits the boiler through the pipe into the steam room. He has been operating his sauna for 30 years this way.

I know you know this, I am writing it to clarify my idea--> The exploding water heater in the video would be caused by the steam not having anywhere to go ( pressure/temperature relief valve broken/stuck ; hot water out tube blocked by the water level in the tank and in the line; cold water in tube blocked by water in the tank and in the line. ) To prevent this, there would need to be a large, open exit, vent at the top of the tank; same as a large hole.

If there were a large hole in the top of the heater in the video, the steam would have went out of the hole before it ever had the time to build up the pressure to rupture/explode the tank. I want to attach a pipe to that hole and direct the exiting steam 4 ft down the pipe and into a room.

I have attached a picture of my friend's boiler. Notice when he had it fabricated he included a pressure gauge, but during operation the pressure gauge never rises above zero as all the steam exits through the top, through the pipe, into the steam room.
20160101_103207.jpg
 

Timmyj

New Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Indonesia
why not just buy a large pressure cooker and run the vent off the top into your steam room????
much safer than fooling with a water heat
er

I like your idea to use a pressure cooker. I like the DIY attitude. But I dont need any pressure! All that wasted pressure inside the cooker could be precious steam in my steam room.

In fact, I want to avoid pressure. Pressure leads to explosions like in the awesome video Terry posted.

What I need is basically a very large soup pot with a lid with a vent that I attach a pipe to and vent into my steam room. From looking at diagrams, it appears to me that a tank water heater is the same exact thing. A large enclosed tank/pot designed to heat water. The tanks are generally designed to hold an average of about 150psi. I dont plan on ever holding any pressure in the tank. As the steam comes off the boiling water, it exits through the vent/pipe ( I will weld into the top of the tank ) and into the steam room. I will still have a pressure relief valve on the tank in case anything goes wrong.

I do not plan on boiling the water until it is empty and running the tank dry. I would shut off the flames and leave a certain amount of water in the tank so that I can flush the tank after every use to prevent buildup and deposits.

And I do not need to worry about insurance or inspectors as I am doing this off grid in a place where there are no building codes.
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,770
Reaction score
1,190
Points
113
Location
New England
I do not plan on boiling the water until it is empty and running the tank dry. I would shut off the flames and leave a certain amount of water in the tank so that I can flush the tank after every use to prevent buildup and deposits.

And I do not need to worry about insurance or inspectors as I am doing this off grid in a place where there are no building codes.
Good intensions are not the basis of safe.

HJ makes a point in that steam could be much hotter if there were the ability to have some pressure in the vessel. Depending on how far it has to go and the insulation and other environmental conditions, you might end up with a hot mist, not steam. Otherwise, things might condense a lot of the moisture out of the air before it gets where you want it.

Your state has building codes, and you probably have some homeowner's insurance, whether they are strictly enforced or not where you physically are.
 

Master Plumber Mark

Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls
Messages
5,538
Reaction score
357
Points
83
Location
indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
Website
www.weilhammerplumbing.com
If you really want to mess yourself up why dont you just build yourself a tee-pee and set up a pit in the middle for
red hot river rocks to be laid..... then all you would have to do is pour water on the red hot rocks and you would have
yourself a sweat lodge it that is what you are attempting to accomplish....
 

Cool Blue Harley

One Dumb Plumber
Messages
153
Reaction score
31
Points
28
Location
San Francisco, CA
Check out "The Lost Art of Steam Heating" by Dan Holohan. I learned a great deal about boilers and steam heating from Dan but even non-plumbers will enjoy it. Informative and full of great yarns.
 

Timmyj

New Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Indonesia
If you really want to mess yourself up why dont you just build yourself a tee-pee and set up a pit in the middle for
red hot river rocks to be laid..... then all you would have to do is pour water on the red hot rocks and you would have
yourself a sweat lodge it that is what you are attempting to accomplish....

I love sweatlodges, which are done in a small covered dome made of bent willow not a tipi, but that is not what I am going for. I am going for more of a finnish style enclosed steam sauna.

My friends boiler model that i posted a picture of has been working for 30 years at his sauna in Thailand providing steam for thousands of guests. Average desirable steam room temperature range is 100F-120F, so a low/no pressure boiler works great, as any hotter and you could start burning yourself. As long as you insulate your steam out pipe, and it does not travel far( less than 4ft in his case) it delivers lots of hot steam.

I am trying to engineer an imitation of his model based on what I have cheaply available. I could go to Thailand and have one fabricated for me cheaper than I could here stateside because stainless steel is much less expensive over there, but with the price of shipping and customs and airfare, I am trying to figure out my best priced options.

In my research, I came across a lot of great ideas and inspirations from woodworkers who use small homemade no pressure boilers to generate steam to steam wood for woodbending who use an alternate resevoir tank on a gravity feed to replace water as it boils off to prevent the main boiler from running dry; from small pressurized propane steam boilers for steaming wallpaper for removal; and from homebrewers who use large pots to brew mash.

I love reusing and repurposing things and so I thought it would be fun to hack an old water heater which is essentially just a large covered pot. But for ease of cleaning and less work I am going to go with a stainless steel 30 gallon brewers pot heated by propane burner because the pot comes with a glass water gauge sight tube, temp gauge, dip tube and drain valve already installed. I will then drill a vent hole in the lid, attach a connecter for a 1 inch pipe that will run to the steam room, and weight the lid down.

For a low water level safety kill switch that can run off a battery bank, I am thinking about having a float in the sight tube that trips a 12v circuit to a solenoid valve in the propane line that feeds the stove. The solenoid valve only remains open if there is current being delivered. So, if the water level drops below where I preset the cut off mark, the circuit is tripped, the valve closes stopping gas from escaping, and the burner goes out, saving my boiler from burning dry.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks