Water Heater Replacment

Users who are viewing this thread

Arnav

Member
Messages
150
Reaction score
10
Points
18
Location
Florida
A few WH questions.

Info:
- 3 story townhome
- WH is in the garage
- The current one is a 50 Gal 4500/4500-Watt StateSelect WH
- The WH feeds of two 25A breakers
- As a family of 5 we never run out of hot water even back to back
- The system is open

The questions:

1. Is it worth going to a 5500/5500-Watt WH and replace the breaker or stay with a 4500/4500-Watt one and keep the breaker as is?

The 5500/5500-Watt ones seems to be more popular (if what's in stock in HD is any indication).
The 4500/4500-Watt have to be ordered in. The spec on both seems to be the same which is odd. You would expect the higher wattage one to have higher FHD rating (unless the HD specs are wrong).

2. I have 68" to where the water hot / cold supply lines come out of the wall. The WH I am thinking off is 59" tall. Not enough for an 8" cinderblock. You think I will have enough clearance for a 4" block? Or not even to bother?

3. Can I just replicate the existing pipe routes (see pic) or do you see anything wrong with it?

4. Do you have any recommendations or preferences between these two:

Rhem Performance Platinum 50 Gal. Tall 12 Year 4500/4500-Watt Elements Electric Water Heater with LCD Touch Control Display
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-Pe...Touch-Control-Display-XE50T12EC55U1/205810438

Whirlpool 50-Gallon 240-Volt 12-Year Residential Regular Electric Water Heater
http://www.lowes.com/pd_592533-135-ES50R12-55___

For some reason I am inclined towards the Rhem one but the Whirlpool one has much better reviews.
 

Attachments

  • Waterheater.jpg
    Waterheater.jpg
    51.9 KB · Views: 1,478

Smooky

In the Trades
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
152
Points
63
Location
North Carolina
What is wrong with the one you have? If you never run out of hot water with 5 people why not just keep it simple? Cinder block, for what?
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,749
Reaction score
4,400
Points
113
Location
IL
1. Is it worth going to a 5500/5500-Watt WH and replace the breaker or stay with a 4500/4500-Watt one and keep the breaker as is?
If you have #10 wire, you could go to 30 amp breakers.

Smooky makes a great point.
 
Last edited:

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,771
Reaction score
1,191
Points
113
Location
New England
Gas WH used to (maybe still) needed to be elevated in a garage, but I'm not sure that's necessary on a gas one these days, nor does it seem to be the case with an electric one. Local codes would dictate. On a gas one, it was to help ensure it couldn't ignite gas fumes hugging the ground, as I understand it. The new ones are designed to prevent that. No technical reason an electric one needed to be elevated except maybe if you had salty slush melting off of the car, to help prevent it from rusting out on the bottom. A drip pan would perform the same function.

Upsizing the breakers all depends on what wire is run. Increasing the recovery rate times doesn't seem to be an important issue for your family, so it would come down to what's the most economical solution.
 

Arnav

Member
Messages
150
Reaction score
10
Points
18
Location
Florida
Thanks for the responses.

1. Re 5500 vs. 4500 : fair enough, I will stick with what I have.

2. I thought to elevate even an electric one to make it easier to drain. Its hard to attach a hose to the valve when it butts so close against the floor. I wasn't sure how conmon practice it is. Maybe it is not, in which case I’ll decide what I want to do.

If you prefer one brand over another please let me know...

Thx!
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,749
Reaction score
4,400
Points
113
Location
IL
2. I thought to elevate even an electric one to make it easier to drain.
Great reason. Few people flush their water heaters, although they should. Flushing is more than draining, but it can be as simple as turn off water, drain, turn on water full briefly, repeat a few times.

Some people who flush regularly will replace the drain valve with a full-flow ball valve on a brass 3/4 NPT nipple. You could even insert a wand in there to mobilize debris to come out better.

Planning out things for your next WH to get if/when you current one leaks is good. I would check the wire size in advance so you will know if you can use 30 amp breakers on that next one.
 
Last edited:

Arnav

Member
Messages
150
Reaction score
10
Points
18
Location
Florida
Just to be clear... The current one is leaking so I am looking to replace it. While it is not a major leak, of course there is no point in waiting for it to become worse (especially when I am away).
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,749
Reaction score
4,400
Points
113
Location
IL
Just to be clear... The current one is leaking so I am looking to replace it. While it is not a major leak, of course there is no point in waiting for it to become worse (especially when I am away).
That makes a big difference. 10 AWG wire? You can inspect that if you remove the cover off of the breaker panel. There should be markings on the wires.
 

Arnav

Member
Messages
150
Reaction score
10
Points
18
Location
Florida
The wires are not marked at the breaker :(. Comparing the WH wires (that are marked) to those coming through the wall they both seems to be the same and 12AWG not 10. If so, that suggests that they can't even technically support a 4500W WH. Maybe my current 4500W heater is in fact wired for the alternative 3000W rating the WH support. Still need to confirm that.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,749
Reaction score
4,400
Points
113
Location
IL
The wires are not marked at the breaker :(. Comparing the WH wires (that are marked) to those coming through the wall they both seems to be the same and 12AWG not 10.
Sounds like going to higher wattage on the replacement is not a good idea.

Just curious-- how old is the heater? There is probably a date code on a label if you don't know already. Your action would still be the same if the age is 6 years or 26 years.
The system is open
Also curious as to what that phrase meant-- are you saying that the WH is easy to access and the space would support a physically larger unit? Chances are that the new unit will be a little bigger due to newer insulation standards.
 

Arnav

Member
Messages
150
Reaction score
10
Points
18
Location
Florida
opps sorry guys. I just had an idea. I used my digital calliper to confirm the diameter of the wiring and it is consistent with 10AWG not 12AWG...

*** sigh of relief ***

We can now wire to it the flux capacitor after all... :)
 

Arnav

Member
Messages
150
Reaction score
10
Points
18
Location
Florida
Just curious-- how old is the heater? There is probably a date code on a label if you don't know already. Your action would still be the same if the age is 6 years or 26 years.
I can't find a date anywhere on it. My guess is that it is as old as the house (14 years). I attached the label just in case it is of interest.

Also curious as to what that phrase meant-- are you saying that the WH is easy to access and the space would support a physically larger unit? Chances are that the new unit will be a little bigger due to newer insulation standards.
I meant that I don't think that I need an expansion tank (or that at least there isn't one now). The WH is free standing in the garage so plenty of space to accommodate any unit.
 

Attachments

  • Water heater label.jpg
    Water heater label.jpg
    77.8 KB · Views: 3,332

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,599
Reaction score
1,037
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
September 2002. The 5500 heaters are usually 9, 10, or 12 year warranty ones. Your 25 amp breakers are adequate for it. The platform under an electric heater, (and even the gas ones with the FVIR system), is to prevent vehicles from impacting the heater. If it is in an alcove or has bolsters in front of it, it can be on the floor.
 

Arnav

Member
Messages
150
Reaction score
10
Points
18
Location
Florida
haha, nice! The 4500W in question comes with a 12 yr warranty as well.

The only thing I don't get is that both the 4500W and the 5500W have the same FHD rating (unless a mistake on the HD site?). Shouldn't 5500 have better FHD ratings?
 

Arnav

Member
Messages
150
Reaction score
10
Points
18
Location
Florida
Thank you. That helps. I think i will stick with 4500W as the FHD difference is not that big. You know, the "if its not broken..." principle. Maybe I gauged the wires wrong, maybe there was a reason they used 4500W (who knows). I think the risk in this case is not going to be worth it. I'll just stick with the same ratings (which are known to work for us) and sleep better at night (especially when I am away a week at a time...).

The shark bite braided connectors are tempting. Do you guys use them at all? No issue with copper, just wondering if they are only good for those that are solder challenged... :)
 

WorthFlorida

Clinical Trail on a Cancer Drug Started 1/31/24. ☹
Messages
5,715
Solutions
1
Reaction score
980
Points
113
Location
Orlando, Florida
I like everything soldered but I have used shark bite valves and amazing that they are quite reliable. The first time I used one was the for the 1/2 bath toilet. It's in about ten years now and still holding. The next one was the water heater shut off. I had about two or three of gate valves for my water heaters for the about 2o years. Every time I wanted to shut them off, the gate valve stem would break due to corrosion or never turn off completely. The 3/4 copper pipe from the wall was getting short so I really cleaned the pipe and installed a shark bite 3/4 ball valve and hung the removal tool on the pipe should it ever needs to be removed. Looking at your picture I see the occasional leak from the stem if the shut off valve. Almost guarantee it that it won't shut off and then forever leak at the stem. I personally do not like the braided or flex pipes to the water heater but the connections will hold.
 

Arnav

Member
Messages
150
Reaction score
10
Points
18
Location
Florida
ok, copper it is. I'll keep the braided ones as a backup plan. The tank would take a few weeks to deliver, but I'll post a pic of the final result when done. Thx for all the help.

While this thread is going on, i managed to fix a leaking PVC fitting in a crawl space under a toilet. What do you know? Of course a primer was not used and of course the flange was not bolted to the floor.
 

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,599
Reaction score
1,037
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
HOW did you "fix" it, because even without primer you should not have been able to take it apart, (nor should it have started to leak, either, for that matter).
 

Arnav

Member
Messages
150
Reaction score
10
Points
18
Location
Florida
I was not able to take it a part. I had to saw it off. The first 4" 90 degrees elbow underneath the toilet started leaking where it meets the 4" vertical pipe coming off the flange. I figured I'll try and fix it (hopefully) the right way instead of just trying to seal it. Attached is a pic of the before and after. I figured I'll wait a few days before closing it up to make sure it is holding up. All pipes are butting all the way against the end of the fittings. It was kind of a pain to do and get the angles right without being able to truly dry fit it. Hopefully it looks good. Had I known pics will be taken I would have taken it easier with the purple all over... :)
 

Attachments

  • leaking toilet before.jpg
    leaking toilet before.jpg
    65.6 KB · Views: 697
  • leaking toliet after.jpg
    leaking toliet after.jpg
    71.6 KB · Views: 682
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks