Water heater replacement

Discussion in 'Water Heater Forum, Tanks' started by chubyball, Jun 18, 2009.

  1. chubyball

    chubyball New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    Ohio
    Should I buy GE brand or Whirlpool?
    GE
    40 gallon natural gas tall eco-friendly water heater. 12 Year tank & parts limited warranty. 1 Year full in-home service warranty. 38,000 BTU Ultra low NOx radiant burner. Piezo ignition system for "no match" lighting. High Altitude compliant up to 10,200 Ft. Factory installed T & P relief valve. FVIR Compliant with exclusive air/fuel shut-off device offers double protection from igniting flammable vapors outside the water heater. Maintenance free combustion air intake, no filters to clean/replace.

    Call 1-888-480-9500 for Water Heater Installation
    Complies with SCAQMD Rule 1121 for Ultra Low Nox emissons
    Proven Fvir Design Requires No Periodic Maintenance, No Filters To Clean Or Replace
    Factory Installed Temperature and Pressure Relief Valve
    Eco-friendly Ultra Low Nox Radiant Burner
    MFG Brand Name : GE
    MFG Model # : SG40T12TXK00
    MFG Part # : 564029

    Whirlpool

    Water Heater Style: Tall
    Tank Capacity (Gallons): 40.0
    Family Size: 3
    Warranty: 12-Year
    Fuel Source: Natural Gas
    BTU Input (BTU): 40000
    Diameter (Inches): 19.5
    Height (Inches): 60.0
    Water Connection Location: Top
    Water Connection Size: 3/4"
    Temperature and Pressure Relief Valve: Yes
    GPH Recovery at 90 Degrees F (Gallons): 40.5
    Energy Factor: 0.59
    High Altitude Model: No
    Lo Nox: Yes
    Foam Insulation: Yes
    Ignition Type: Piezo
    Pilot Reset Button: Yes
    Pilot Light Window: Yes
    UL Listed: Yes
    CSA Listed: Yes
    ETL Listed: Yes
    Commercial / Residential: Residential
    Vent Diameter (Inches): 3.0
    Vent Type: Gas Single Wall
    ENERGY STAR qualified: No

    Whirlpool Water Heater thread, complaints and fixes
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2009
  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,272
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    heater

    Which costs less? That is really about the only difference between most heaters. Either one could last 12 years, but they could also go bad in 3 years. It is something the manufacturer has absolutely no control over.
  3. Thatguy

    Thatguy Homeowner

    Messages:
    1,459
    Location:
    MD
    40 gallon natural gas tall eco-friendly water heater.
    >Nobody says they are eco-unfriendly so there is no information in this phrase. It's like a politician saying that he supports Motherhood, God, Country and Apple pie. If you say "Toddler kills rattlesnake at picnic", that phrase does contain information (because it is unexpected).

    12 Year tank & parts limited warranty. 1 Year full in-home service warranty.
    >The price of these "insurance policies" is included in the sale price.

    FVIR Compliant with exclusive air/fuel shut-off device offers double protection from igniting flammable vapors outside the water heater.
    >How often does this happen, ever?

    Complies with SCAQMD Rule 1121 for Ultra Low Nox emissons
    >What am you paying extra for this? What was sacrificed?

    Warranty: 12-Year
    >See above

    Energy Factor: 0.59
    >No clue as to what this means.

    As to designed-in reliability,
    http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=mtbf&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

    MIL-STD-217 is used to calculate this for military applications but I'm sure the manufacturers of consumer goods know exactly the odds of them paying up on warranty service.

    But we don't, and they fer' sure are not going to tell us.
    "In economics and contract theory, information asymmetry deals with the study of decisions in transactions where one party has more or better information than the other."
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2009
  4. thebeersensei

    thebeersensei New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Do some research on Whirlpool water heaters and you won't want one. GE is supposed to be ok, and personally I've had one for seven years with no issues. The new "safety" redesigns a few years ago seems to have caused folks lots of problems and also doubled the prices.

    Whirlpool Water Heater thread, complaints and fixes
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2009
  5. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    Get that junk out of your house. Get a Bradford White or an AO Smith.
  6. Thepartsguy

    Thepartsguy In the Trades

    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    Dallas TX
    Both made by Rheem in Mexico for big box stores. One Lowes the other HD. Run and run fast.
  7. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    No, The Whirlpool is made by American Water Heaters and I would avoid them like the plague...

    GE is made by Rheem but to cheapened big box specifications...

    I would agree with NH Master and keep the junk out of my house!
    Go with a Bradford White!

    Whirlpool Water Heater thread, complaints and fixes
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2009
  8. Thepartsguy

    Thepartsguy In the Trades

    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    Dallas TX
    At one time American sub'd its Whirlpool line to Rheems Nuero Larado plant because they couldnt meet the big box demand. Pretty much American just handled the paperwork. Not sure if it is still going on but it was.
  9. Mario

    Mario Master Plumber

    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    Kansas
    Rheem's sold at plumbing supply houses are of a good quality....
    Bradford Whites are good quality also except...for one "little" thing.
    They don't have legs on them anymore and that makes them incompatible with drip-pans.

    There needs to be a warning on the box somewhere, I have been over this with their technical support group.
    The air intakes for the mandated "sealed combustion" design are filtered and lie below the water-line if placed inside a standard drip pan.
    (I found this out while testing the drainage for the drip pan before I left an installation one day)
    When the drip pan is filled with water the filter sponges inside the air intakes become water logged, the unit suffocates and goes out.
    It won't stay lit till the filters dry out....and that may take days or weeks.
    This is a little design flaw and thanks to me they are now aware of it.
    If you have to use a Bradford White in a drip pan, you will need to set it on bricks up out of the water level.
    I still think they are a great water heater, other than that no problems.

    As for Whirlpool's....never, ever under any circumstance whatsoever buy a Whirlpool water heater from Home Depot or Lowe's.
    They are under a manufactures recall for defective pilot/burner assemblies and gas valves.
    They will stay lit for about one year and then stop.
    Replacing the thermocouple doesn't fix the problem.
    Replacing the limit switch doesn't fix it.
    Replacing the gas valve doesn't fix it.

    Replacing the entire pilot tube/burner/thermocouple assembly AND the gas valve doesn't fix the problem.
    The replacement parts they send you are the same made in Mexico junk that caused the problem in the first place.

    They have a manufacturer's recall on the units and are still selling them at Home Depots and Lowe's at the same time.
    They haven't pulled the units from the stores.
    Their solution is to just wait for the unit to fail and the customer to complain.
    Then your cold water nightmare begins.

    They will attempt to do as little as possible to fix the problem replacing one defective part at a time after the customer waits 2-5 days for shipping for each part, then finally authorizing the entire replacement of the unit.
    By this time the customer has been without hot water for weeks.

    Beware...you have been warned.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2009
  10. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Mario,
    The early models of the FVIR gas water heaters with an "FG" model number were covered by the class action lawsuit...

    The later models with a "BG" model number are not covered. They have the new style burner that "Fixes" the problem. But have no fear it doesn't work either...:eek:

    A Bradford White sitting on brick legs in a drip pan is IMHO better than any other brand...
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2009
  11. kingsotall

    kingsotall Plunger/TurdPuncher

    Mario, you really need to meet my lil friend:okiedoki.

    :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2009
  12. Mario

    Mario Master Plumber

    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    Kansas

    Yeah, I actually had read that before my last post.
    That is interesting he found that out.
    But...you can't go soldering micro-temp limit switches on gas valves without voiding the warranty or worse yet opening yourself up to a lawsuit if something goes terribly wrong.

    Gas valves made in China?
    That's an act of war.

    It was bad enough they put lead paint on children's toys and shipped them over here, put the date rape drug in "Aqua-dots" for our little toddlers to put in their mouths...
    But now they have crossed the line.
    Messed with the plumbing trade and sent water heater valves with built-in timers to self destruct.

    Time to return the favor and send 'em some good old American firepower.
    GM automobiles...
    Can't sell them here anyway, so ship them over there free of charge.
    There's some payback American style.
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2009
  13. waste of time....

    I agree with REDWOOD

    this is not even a good debate.....



    The only thing you can compare a Whirlpool water heater to

    is a ............STEAMING PILE OF DOG SHIT............



    [​IMG] Actually , the dog shit might stay warm longer than
    the Whirlpool water heater will ....





    go here if you want to read about whirlpool dog shit..
    http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/


    just my 2 cents worth.....
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2009
  14. kingsotall

    kingsotall Plunger/TurdPuncher

    And what a two cents it was...:D
  15. Thatguy

    Thatguy Homeowner

    Messages:
    1,459
    Location:
    MD
    Here's some info on the cost of warranties; reliability is in there somewhere. . .
    http://www.warrantyweek.com/archive/ww20070619.html

    How do the product prices compare? "The average warranty cost varies from 1% to 10% of the sale price, depending on the manufacturer and the product."
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2009
  16. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    That link you provided Thatguy is a nice concept but in the case of American Water Heaters has failed to be proven. Instead a new innovation in customer service is being tried...

    The art of selling defective crap and pulling the customers chain until they give up and go away...

    Here's the results...

    American Water Heaters Complaints

    Whirlpool Water Heater Complaints
  17. Thatguy

    Thatguy Homeowner

    Messages:
    1,459
    Location:
    MD
    Thanks for the link. It's quicker than Googling
    "class action"
    or
    "wrongful death"
    and the name of the manufacturer
  18. garycase

    garycase New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Brand Recommendations for Electric Heaters

    Do the comments about r.e. Bradford White & others apply to electric heaters as well? In particular, is there any problem with the electric version sitting in a drain pan?
  19. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,272
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    pan

    If there is water in the "drip pan" it usually means the heater is leaking, so what difference does it make if the heater will not relight if it gets wet. The heater has to be replaced anyway. Or are you draining the safety valve into the pan which is a formula for major flooding. The FVIR specification is non-negotiable therefore EVERY heater 75 gallons or less complies with it. The SCAQMA is a California requirement that the manufacturers incorporated into all their heaters in order to avoid setting up a special line for them, so you might have a hard time finding a heater that did not conform to it.
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