Water hammer issue, really need high level professional helps

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Jerry lou

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We had a water hammer issue and it is just getting worse. Will need some really professional helps here as already had over 5 plumbers stopped by, several jobs completed, and the hammer still there.


The water hammer started when we repaired the water damage from an upstairs toilet leak in the 2nd story bathroom which just over the 1st story master bathroom . The handyman changed all the tilt on the upstairs bath room, re-worked/paint /textured the ceiling between 2nd story bath room and 1st master bath room ( they are aligned from top to bottom) . He also rebuilt all the bathroom sink cabinets. Then after about a couple weeks we heard the noise from the drywall that connects the master bedroom and 2nd stair bathroom. The noise start when close the master bathroom faucet, and water flash completed from master bathroom toilet. When using the faucet/toilet in our 3rd bathroom (up stairs but not the one on the top of master bedroom)

Here are things we did from different plumbers:

1. water pressure check: had plumber stopped by and detected we had high water pressure 90psi. Then he added a water heater extension valve as the PRV (pressure reduce valve) is inspected OK. The pressure is now around 70~75 psi. However the water hammer issue does not go away, and actually louder than before;

2. Add the water hammer arrestor in our laundry washer (even the washer did not trigger any hammer at the beginning but just a trial). Now after install the arrestor, the washer actually would cause the water hammer whenever it start to pull water.

3. Now plumbers suggest cutting the dry wall to tighten the loose pipe but none of them can be sure they could fix it.

4. The noise comes from the dry wall is for sure. Actually next to the wall is the master bath room tub. U can feel the vibration when hold the tub faucet.

5. We drained the water in the house for several times just to see if it can help to minimize the hammer noise. No help. It will start low at beginning but then back to normal soon.


Things that I do not understand is why every time we add something (extension tank/hammer arrestor) , the hammer actually gets worse. What should be our next try? Sure not wanting to cut too many holes in the wall. Any professional suggestion would be greatly appreciated!!
 

brandon watson

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We had a water hammer issue and it is just getting worse. Will need some really professional helps here as already had over 5 plumbers stopped by, several jobs completed, and the hammer still there.


The water hammer started when we repaired the water damage from an upstairs toilet leak in the 2nd story bathroom which just over the 1st story master bathroom . The handyman changed all the tilt on the upstairs bath room, re-worked/paint /textured the ceiling between 2nd story bath room and 1st master bath room ( they are aligned from top to bottom) . He also rebuilt all the bathroom sink cabinets. Then after about a couple weeks we heard the noise from the drywall that connects the master bedroom and 2nd stair bathroom. The noise start when close the master bathroom faucet, and water flash completed from master bathroom toilet. When using the faucet/toilet in our 3rd bathroom (up stairs but not the one on the top of master bedroom)

Here are things we did from different plumbers:

1. water pressure check: had plumber stopped by and detected we had high water pressure 90psi. Then he added a water heater extension valve as the PRV (pressure reduce valve) is inspected OK. The pressure is now around 70~75 psi. However the water hammer issue does not go away, and actually louder than before;

2. Add the water hammer arrestor in our laundry washer (even the washer did not trigger any hammer at the beginning but just a trial). Now after install the arrestor, the washer actually would cause the water hammer whenever it start to pull water.

3. Now plumbers suggest cutting the dry wall to tighten the loose pipe but none of them can be sure they could fix it.

4. The noise comes from the dry wall is for sure. Actually next to the wall is the master bath room tub. U can feel the vibration when hold the tub faucet.

5. We drained the water in the house for several times just to see if it can help to minimize the hammer noise. No help. It will start low at beginning but then back to normal soon.


Things that I do not understand is why every time we add something (extension tank/hammer arrestor) , the hammer actually gets worse. What should be our next try? Sure not wanting to cut too many holes in the wall. Any professional suggestion would be greatly appreciated!!
We had a water hammer issue and it is just getting worse. Will need some really professional helps here as already had over 5 plumbers stopped by, several jobs completed, and the hammer still there.


The water hammer started when we repaired the water damage from an upstairs toilet leak in the 2nd story bathroom which just over the 1st story master bathroom . The handyman changed all the tilt on the upstairs bath room, re-worked/paint /textured the ceiling between 2nd story bath room and 1st master bath room ( they are aligned from top to bottom) . He also rebuilt all the bathroom sink cabinets. Then after about a couple weeks we heard the noise from the drywall that connects the master bedroom and 2nd stair bathroom. The noise start when close the master bathroom faucet, and water flash completed from master bathroom toilet. When using the faucet/toilet in our 3rd bathroom (up stairs but not the one on the top of master bedroom)

Here are things we did from different plumbers:

1. water pressure check: had plumber stopped by and detected we had high water pressure 90psi. Then he added a water heater extension valve as the PRV (pressure reduce valve) is inspected OK. The pressure is now around 70~75 psi. However the water hammer issue does not go away, and actually louder than before;

2. Add the water hammer arrestor in our laundry washer (even the washer did not trigger any hammer at the beginning but just a trial). Now after install the arrestor, the washer actually would cause the water hammer whenever it start to pull water.

3. Now plumbers suggest cutting the dry wall to tighten the loose pipe but none of them can be sure they could fix it.

4. The noise comes from the dry wall is for sure. Actually next to the wall is the master bath room tub. U can feel the vibration when hold the tub faucet.

5. We drained the water in the house for several times just to see if it can help to minimize the hammer noise. No help. It will start low at beginning but then back to normal soon.


Things that I do not understand is why every time we add something (extension tank/hammer arrestor) , the hammer actually gets worse. What should be our next try? Sure not wanting to cut too many holes in the wall. Any professional suggestion would be greatly appreciated!!

Check all of the angle stops up stairs and make sure they are on completely
 

Jerry lou

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Check all of the angle stops up stairs and make sure they are on completely

I will check today but I believe they are on as we drained the house several times and reopened them. There are 2 bathrooms upstairs. Funny thing is the one that create the water damage / just above the master bedroom does not trigger the hammer, but the one in the other side does.
 

hj

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What does, "he added a water heater extension valve as a PRV" mean. The PRV has to go on the cold water line coming into the house if it is going to do any good. Water hammer occurs when you turn faucets off, NOT while you are using the water.
 

WJcandee

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What does, "he added a water heater extension valve as a PRV" mean. The PRV has to go on the cold water line coming into the house if it is going to do any good. Water hammer occurs when you turn faucets off, NOT while you are using the water.

He is saying that one plumber told him that his PRV checked okay, so, in order to reduce the measured 90psi pressure, the plumber added an expansion (he just misunderstood the word as being "extension") tank to his system, apparently assuming that it was a closed system and that the cycling of the HWH was causing a rise in pressure. He is also describing a condition where he gets hammer when turning off the faucets and when the toilet shuts off, so that is consistent with your analysis.

(PS To parse his wording, he didn't say "as a PRV", he said "as the PRV inspected okay", using "as" to mean "because", the way I often do.)
 

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Water hammer happens when water is flowing really fast and a faucet or a toilet valve closes quickly. An easy fix is usually to slow the fill rate of the toilets and faucets by partially closing off the angle stops. The toilets will fill slower, but there won’t be any water hammer when the valves close.
 

Jerry lou

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Thanks for all the responses !

One suggestion above is to close the angle valve to slow down the water flow rate. We tried to close the faucet slowly. We did try to close the faucet slow but it won't eliminate the water hammer unless you close it at a very , very slow speed. I am trying to change the cartridge of the bath tub faucet to see if it can help. As the water hammer noise is very close to the master bath tub faucet area. You can almost feel the vibration there. BTW, you can hear the pipe shaking in the dry wall. We will keep trying and hopefully can solve the issue. It becomes one of our most important life project. LOL ~~
 

Reach4

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I think Jerry lou is having machine gunning, rapid repeated banging, or some other oscillation. A continuing oscillation not what the term "water hammer" refers to. Part of the discussion is semantics regarding what "water hammer" means.

Regarding getting into drywall, if the wall is in a closet, putting in a removable access panel rather than repairing and painting the drywall could be a good idea.

Do I understand you to say that the problem sound only occurs when one particular faucet or associated shower is passing water?
 

Jerry lou

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The noise occurs mostly when we close the faucet ( three faucets in the master bathroom, two in the 3rd bathroom upstairs, and the one in the half bath 1st floor, and the one in the kitchen) , and when the water flash completed in the toilets ( one in master bathroom, one in the 3rd bathroom upstairs, the one in the half bath of 1st floor) . And now it also occurs when we use the laundry washer M/C ( whenever it loading the water) .
I do believe it was a typical water hammer issue. Noise generated from all the above faucets/toilets concentrated in the dry wall , and close to the faucet of the master bath tub. So I plan to change the cartridge tomorrow. Will update what is going on then.
In addition, the wall is between the master bath room and bedroom. Hard to put a access panel there. Believe there is a system of pipes installed inside this dry wall. Considering to put big a picture frame there after cut a hole. But truly hope not go that far .
 

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I have such strong pressure at my house that all my fixtures cause water hammer when the water is shut off.

My toilets will fill in 12 seconds, which causes water hammer when the toilet valve shuts. I slow the toilet fill rate with the angle stop on the wall. I make it take about 30 seconds to fill the toilet and there is no water hammer when it is full.

My washing machine tub will fill in about 30 seconds, and the solenoid valve closing causes all the pipes in the house to shake. I slow the fill rate with the hose bib or faucet so it takes more than a minute to fill the washing machine, and the water hammer goes away.

You can also slow the water to the kitchen sink and bathroom faucets with the angle stop under the sinks.

When water is flowing really fast and a valve closes, it is like dropping a boulder in front of a moving freight train, there is going to be a crash. Slowing the fill rate of the fixtures will prevent water hammer when the valves close.
 

Jerry lou

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Updates here. We changed the cartridge, and .... most of important, the plumber found the issue. Actually , for some reason, all the water valve on the faucets/toilets were not fully open, which led to a high water pressure. Even we lowered the water pressure for the whole house but it won't help for these areas.
Actually , Brandon Wilson above mentioned this but we did not think about it. It is just sooooo.. amazing that these areas would cause the issue!!!
 

Jerry lou

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Thanks guys for your responses ! Brandon, u are good . Wondering if you had the similar issue like us , or are u in plumbing business ? Just a curious.
 

Hardt

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Well, I am confused. Watson's suggestion to completely open the shutoff valves seems to have fixed the OP's problem but valveman says just the opposite: partially closing the valves will reduce the flowing mass of water and fix the water hammer problem. Intuitively, valveman's theory makes more sense to me but it's hard to argue with success!
 

Cacher_Chick

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It depends on the type of valve. A valve that uses a rubber washer and seat can cause noise if it is not open all the way.
 

Hardt

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Ahh... that reason never crossed my mind. Thanks, cacher_chick. I've replaced all my old washer/seat stop valves with quarter-turn ball valves... how quickly we forget the old stuff!
 

Valveman

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Yeah that doesn't really make sense to me either. I changed out all my flexible hoses to the toilets and washing machines this weekend. Exercised all the angle stops and hose bibs as they where kind of stuck in place. I still had to reduce the flow with the stops and hose bibs to stop water hammer when the toilet and washing machine were full.
 

Cacher_Chick

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  1. Particularly If you are running higher pressures, mechanical arrestors at quick-acting valves like the washer and water closet are highly recommended.
 

brandon watson

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Thanks guys for your responses ! Brandon, u are good . Wondering if you had the similar issue like us , or are u in plumbing business ? Just a curious.
I am in the plumbing business and have ran into this issue a few times I'm glad you were able to solve your issue
 

Henry Rollins

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  1. Particularly If you are running higher pressures, mechanical arrestors at quick-acting valves like the washer and water closet are highly recommended.
Here's my issue: The arrestors say you have to have 60 psi or lower to use them. If my PSI was 60 or lower, I probably wouldn't have freakin' water hammer! Are there any easily installable arrestors out there that are equipped to handle a PSI of 90 or so? If I installed a PRV and cranked my PSI down to 60 I would 1) not have any water hammer 2) not have any damn pressure in my upstairs shower.
 
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