Wall mount vs. Tiny toilet

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Susan1010, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. Susan1010

    Susan1010 New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Greetings, everyone--what a great forum and website! Thanks Terry Love and others!

    I am about to remodel a small bathroom, the only bathroom in a 400 sq foot condo. The bath measures 60 inches by 72 inches. No room to expand.

    Toilets: I am thinking about a wall mount toilet with a tank (Gerberit?) in the wall, but my neighbors are concerned about flushing and water noise, and leaks, problems, etc. I think I can handle the leaks part, but what about the noises? Are these units noisy? The wall is 2 x 4s, but will be built out to 2 x 6 for the wall mount toilet.

    OR OR OR

    What about the Galba toilet at luxury homes, it has passed the MaP test. I really don't want a problematic toilet:

    http://www.luxurymodernhome.com/galba-25-inch-small-toilet-mini-tiny-short-compact-upc.html

    If not the wall mount, which may be a problem with the condo association, what is the best, round, comfort height, compact/short toilet for this small 3/4 bath?

    I appreciate your advice
  2. johnjh2o1

    johnjh2o1 Plumbing Contractor for 49 years

    Messages:
    1,143
    Location:
    South*East
    You do realize in Massachusetts your not allowed to DIY your own plumbing.

    John
  3. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,938
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Don't know anything about the Galba, but maybe that's saying something.

    The noise from the wall-tank doesn't strike me as excessive. However, it's now going to be one thickness of wallboard closer to your neighbors than the tank that was filling on your previous toilet. That may make them perceive it as louder. You are also correct that mounting that tank in the wall may be an issue with your condo association because you will be putting a fixture in a common area -- at least it seems like that's a possible interpretation and I don't know your regs, your condo plan, etc., etc. You have definitely spotted a potential issue. Leaks seems like the kind of concern that neighbors raise just to be a pain: there are plenty of valves, pipes, etc. in the common walls that can leak; no reason to think that this tank would be any more likely to do so. In the beach house at our club, they installed Toto in-wall tanks and Toto wall-mount toilets. They then tiled over the wall containing the tank. That should tell you about how concerned they were that they would someday need to get in to fix a leak in that tank. (The wear parts -- fill valve, flush valve, etc. -- are all accessible and replaceable through the little panel on which the push buttons are mounted, which just comes off, but the rest of the tank isn't.)

    Have a look at the Toto wall-mounts and the Toto tank and trim. I think the Aquia wall-mount and Maris wall-mount are nice toilets. They will work on a Toto in-wall tank system or a Geberit in-wall tank system. You aren't limited to Duravit as a bowl supplier.

    If you want a smaller toilet, the Toto Drake round CST743S is only 26-3/8 from back of toilet to front of bowl (but it sits an inch off the wall so you're probably looking at about 27-1/2" from the wall). The elongated, which can be had in ADA Height (CST744SL) is 28" plus 1-1/4" to the wall, so figure 29-1/4".

    Maybe the best bet for you in Totos would be the Promenade Round, CST423SF. It's only 26-1/8" long, and sits about 3/4" off the wall on a 12" rough-in (which we are presuming to be what you have -- if not, all these bets are off). It is Universal Height, and has a truly-excellent flush. It is also available in a 1.28gpf (gallons per flush) version that qualifies for Watersense rebates if your jurisdiction offers one (http://www.epa.gov/WaterSense/rebate_finder_saving_money_water.html), and it is also available with a Sanagloss nonstick finish (CST423EFG). Here is the spec sheet for the 1.28gpf version: http://terrylove.com/pdf/cst423ef_spec.pdf

    If you go with a Toto, you know that it will flush wonderfully, be of high quality (and high quality-control, so you're not going to get a lemon), use easy-to-find replacement parts, and is made by a manufacturer (the largest plumbing manufacturer in the world) that is going to be around down the road. Do some research on the model numbers you are interested in, because the street price of Totos is regularly 30% or more below list price.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2014
  4. Susan1010

    Susan1010 New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    wall mount vs. tiny toilet Galba from luxury homes

    I didn't know that, but, I am not doing my own plumbing. I am shopping and choosing, and my neighbors have complained that they will hear the flush.

    So, will they hear the flush?

    Susan
  5. Susan1010

    Susan1010 New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Wjcandee--thanks for the excellent information.

    I will try for the wall mount, but the Promenade Round sounds like a good option should the wall mount not get through the Association--but, I am a Trustee, so that will help!

    I think a Toto is the best bet....wall mount or Promenade.

    Thanks!
  6. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,056
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    The long and short of it is that most toilets are the same size, since there would be very limited demand for a "small" toilet.
  7. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,938
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Let's talk about noise for a second. The key here is that the Toto wall hungs are gravity toilets; there is no pressure-assist to make a startling noise when you flush. There's no giant "WOOSH" out of the tank. It's just a squirt of water into the bowl, and that sound will be muffled by the wall, just like a regular toilet. On refill, I find the noise almost-imperceptible on "my" side of the wall -- it's just kind of a trickling sound as the tank refills. Sometimes you have to listen carefully to determine whether it has filled yet. Caution, though, the water pressure at our beach house is relatively-low, so it might be a little louder with more pressure, but certainly no more than the sound a toilet tank makes when filling, and actually a little less as the tank is plastic and contained, as opposed to more-acoustically-live porcelain.

    Here's a Toto Aquia wall-mount in action.

    [video=youtube;7SIfPlo2l_k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SIfPlo2l_k[/video]

    I would have a video like this one (maybe the complete cycle if you can find it) when you make the presentation to the Association so everyone can see what you are talking about.

    One alternative, although I haven't calculated the total distance you would end up with from your wall, is the Geberit Monolith. It basically lets you mount the "in wall tank" ON the existing wall, and then shrouds it. It's basically an extension of the wall. It adds about 4" to the wall, so it's that plus the length of the bowl, which for say the Aquia would be 21-1/16", so you get a total of about 25-1/16" from the existing wall. The problem is that it is pretty expensive ($700-ish street price), but it's an option and may reduce the amount of plumbing/brain damage within the existing wall and thus maybe the installation cost. http://www.trendir.com/archives/modular-toilet-monolith-geberit-2.jpg See also this article talking about how some shwanky designer (no doubt on a huge budget) used a monolith when the co-op in NY wouldn't let him put a tank in the wall: http://www.geberit.us/pdf/GNA7174.pdf

    Good luck, and let us know how it goes!
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2013
  8. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,269
    Location:
    New England
    There are basically three common flush methods for toilets: gravity flush, pressure-assisted, and Flushometer type (Flushometer is a brand name - there are other companies that make similar valves). The latter is only possible if you have (usually) at least a 1" water pipe going to it - there is no tank. This is often what you'll see in commercial applications. Of the three, a gravity flush is typically the quietest. In a condo, you have to worry about noise and firewalls, so in the wall may get messy, but gravity flush would be quieter than a pressure assisted system. Refill probably isn't a big issue, it's the actual release under pressure.
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