Vent To Nowhere

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WallyGater

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Small kitchen has been ripped out. I will be replacing with all new. Where the old sink was is hot and cold supply lines and a drain. I plan to change out the old supply lines with new copper and shut off valves.
I also plan to change the galvanised drain with PVC. My question involves the vent. The existing vent went into the wall. When I removed the wall I discovered that the vent was a fake. It is just a nipple with a cap on it.
The Iron drain pipe on the far left comes from the upstairs bathroom. It vents out the roof and goes all the way into the basement. Can the fake vent be uncapped and some how connected to that Iron drain in the corner?
I am pretty sure that's what everyone on this forum refers to as a wet vent.
Is that doable? Is it against code. The house is in Brooklyn, N.Y.
Please can you take a look at the picture and advise me as to the best way to get this sink vented.

New York City Plumbing Code

Chapter 9, Vents
 

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Terry

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You can't drain an upstairs sink over a downstairs sink.

They should have plumbed a separate vent down for the lower floor.

It would have connected at 42" above the second floor, and dropped through the floor to the kitchen below.
Since they did not do that, you would be better off using an AAV as the vent on the downstairs kitchen.


AAV Venting
 
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WallyGater

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aav vent

Will the AVV vent give me the same performance that a real vent would?
I simply want the water to go down the drain.
Does anyone know if they are code in N.Y.?
That is a great idea and looks very simple by the way. Thank You
I was expecting a much more complicated solution
 

hj

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vent

Even IF you could use that pipe in the corner for a vent, you would have to reroute it so it was a continuation of your sink's drain. You could not connect your vent into it with a tee. Under ideal conditions, an AAV will work similar to a regular vent. It is when "unusual" conditions occur that it will give you "false" information about your drain, such as telling you the drain is plugged when it is not.
 

WallyGater

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Aav

could you elaborate on what you mean by "unusual" conditions.
I think I understand what you mean by rerouting the iron pipe in the corner.

Reroute cast iron pipe: Out of the question

Send up a new pvc pipe and tie in 42 inches above upstairs bath: Maybe, but would cause me to open more walls, more damage, two babies and wife upstairs, 100 year old plaster walls.

Send up new pvc pipe and keep going a few more feet right through the roof:
Even more of a mess

Put the AAV on and call it a day
What would you do? Please be brutally honest
 

Terry

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If it was new construction, or there was an open wall I could open up, I would run the vent upstairs and connect above the upper sink,

But if you are all closed in, then the AAV looks like the fix.

You can aways temp it in, and test it first before you close things up.
 

Frenchie

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AAv's are not legal in NYC.

Neither is plastic pipe drainpipe - you have to use cast.

(Oh, wait - oops - they just changed that. You can use plastic, nowadays - IF it's a single-family home.)


I'd need to see more pictures to make a definite suggestion about the venting, but that pipe in the corner definitely looks like a vent/waste stack. From what I can see in that pic... you've had a look on the roof, and it goes through? Then yeah, that's what I'd probably plan for.

Use a Y & a 45, not a tee - so the horizontal run of vent pipe is well above the connection to the vent stack.
 

Frenchie

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You can't drain an upstairs sink over a downstairs sink.

???

Confused...

Sorry for the quality - just scanned these from my NYS Resi codebook - it's a thick book that doesn't want to sit flat...






Oh, never mind, I got it now, you can't connect the vent below the other sink. Leaving the pics up for next post reference...
 

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WallyGater

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vent

frenchie "but that pipe in the corner definitely looks like a vent/waste stack".

Yes it is, and it does go though the roof

frenchie " Use a Y & a 45, not a tee - so the horizontal run of vent pipe is well above the connection to the vent stack"

This is what I had in mind. I would cut the cast iron pipe and proceed with your suggestion. a Y & a 45.

I wish you could post a diagram of your plan.
Is that possible?
 

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Frenchie

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What I was hoping for, was pictures of underneath. This sink drain goes, where? Ditto that stack in the corner.


Depending on how all that's laid out, you might not even need a separate vent (or re-vent, in this case). Look at the 2nd diagram I scanned.

If you horizontal connection to that stack (assuming it connects to that stack, and not somewhere else) is less than 8' long, and you run 2" pipe, and the slope is not steeper than 1/2" per foot (while still, of course, being at least 1/4" per foot)... and you're not hooking a garburator onto it - you're fine, already.
 
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Export!

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Interesting. What's the reasoning behind the pitch for a sink drain not being steeper than 1/2" per ft. I know the theory when you're dealing with WC waste so we don't have to go there ;)


Ahhh... now that I think about it you probably have to oversize the pipe and not overslope it so there is always an air path back to the trap.... is that it?
 
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WallyGater

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vent

I will get pics of below. I will post them tomorrow. From what I remember, the cast iron drain in the corner goes straight down to the basement and disappears into the cement floor.
The sink drain also goes down into the basement and ties horizontally in conjunction with a slop sink and washing machine, into that same iron pipe.

The pictures will be a better way to describe it. Wait until you see the pics I post tomorrow. You wont believe your eyes.

Thanks so much to everyone for your interest and help with my project.

Wally
 

WallyGater

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more pics

these pictures were taken in the basement:

The first one shows the cast iron pipe coming straight down. It disappears into the floor of the basement. You might notice the duct tape on it. That tape covers a hole triangular in shape, that had a metal cover over it that was the same shape as the hole. I have no idea what that hole is doing there? It must of served some purpose at one time.

the second picture shows the galvanised drain pipe coming down to the basement. It transitions to PVC. I plan to make it all PVC

the last picture shows the connection of the drain, also the washer, and a slop sink is in there also. It all goes to the far left and ties into that cast iron pipe, right before it disappears into the floor.

I dont think any of this is vented?

I know its a mess, but thats why I need your help
 

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hj

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drain

Those pictures look like they were for plumbing in the 1030's and the sink/laundry drawing is a "Philadelphia single stack" drain, not legal anywhere else that I know of, yet, but they are working on it. BUT when it is approved, the design will have to be done by a registered mechanical engineer, not by the installing plumber.
 

WallyGater

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You must mean the 1930`s. That AAV is looking better and better. Can I just forget about the basement and try to vent the drain thru the cabinets and directly to the clean-out on the old cast iron pipe with a Y and a 45 just like frenchie said? I have attached a very crude diagram in the next post. Is this what she meant?
 
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FloridaOrange

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I don't think your "stack" pipe (if that is what that is) is large enough to do that. What get's picked up above on that line and what is the size of that line?
 

WallyGater

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vent

Yes I think it is a stack pipe. It goes all the way up through the roof.

the only thing that gets picked up above that is an upstairs kitchen sink

It is cast iron and appears to be about 3 or 4 inch
 

Frenchie

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Is this what Frenchie meant?

No. If you want to vent to the stack, you have to go up - like, above the upstairs sink. Then connect with a Y & a 45, not a T.

So, never mind that - too much trouble.

If it's 3" with only a sink above, what I'm proposing, is this:

You disconnect the existing sink drain - cap if off, in the basement - and re-run the sink drain, directly over to that stack, on the same level. Using 2", not 1-1/2". Sloped at least 1/4" per foot, but no more than 1/2" per foot.

Mind you, this will only work & be code-compliant, if that sink drain is less than 8' away from the stack - and I don't man as the crow flies, I mean the actual path water has to follow in the pipe.

If it's further away than 8', maybe move the sink?


... Which part of brooklyn are you in?
 
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