Valve directly behind toilet: what do to?

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by davidz, Sep 23, 2007.

  1. davidz

    davidz New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Woodinville, WA
    Hi,

    We’re in the middle stages of a bathroom remodel, and we’ve found that, given the slightly odd structure of the area to which we are moving our toilet (long story, including electrical, ducting, and stud placement), the only place for the supply for that toilet is directly behind it, i.e., on the centerline of the toilet, about 5 inches from the floor. The contractor has not yet installed the valve (there’s just a ½” capped copper pipe right now) and he put the drain at 13 ¼” center from the wall, to provide us some options.

    We were eyeing the Toto Ultramax (we’re interested in 1.6-gal flush, one piece, no power-assist), but the specification sheet of this toilet indicates that we’d have problems with where the valve is, because the drain goes pretty much as far back as the tank on this particular toilet.

    This leads to two questions:

    1. Are there recommendations for low-profile valves or valves that turn 90 degrees? Our contractor doesn’t think so; he says that the best we can do is the standard ones that we see in our local hardware stores, which protrude almost three inches from the wall.
    2. Because we'd like to keep the tank as near to the wall as we can (less than one inch preferred), can anyone recommend any other 1.6-gpf one-piece toilets that flush well? We've eyed the Toto Carlyle, but this seems to have the same clearance in the rear near the floor.

    Thanks!

    - David Z.
    [​IMG]
    Toto Carlyle
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2008
  2. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    You could put an elbow on that pipe, and extend a piece of pipe to the left parallel to the wall, to get the valve into a more suitable location.
  3. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,156
    Location:
    New England
    Sometimes, another option is to run the supply up from the floor rather than out of the wall.
  4. patrick88

    patrick88 Plumber

    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    Webster Ma.
    Why not just 90 to the left then 90 out so the toto will fit. You should have enough room. If you do ir right you will be under the left hand side of the tank .
  5. davidz

    davidz New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Woodinville, WA
    Thanks to all the respondents.

    First, it's too late to put the piping in the floor, as tiling has already been installed. (This is part of the "long story" to which I alluded in my original email: The contractor decided to do things an expeditious way without consulting us first, and it's not only with the plumbing.)

    Regarding putting 90's in the piping, I wonder if this is "safe". Looking at the piping, it doesn't look all that sturdy (it's 1/2" copper), and while we won't be turning the valve on and off frequently and it will be behind the toilet, it would seem the it would take only one hard jolt or pull on the piping to crack or bend it to compromise it and possibly cause it to leak. Am I being over-cautious here?

    In any case, thanks for the answers. (Terry Love will be pleased to know that we'll probably be buying the Toto Ultramax from him should we find that we can do the 90's that have been suggested here. ;-)

    - David Z.
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,136
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The copper 90 el would be very sturdy.
    Many times, you already have a copper 90 el in the wall.

    The fact that the rough-in is at 13-1/4" give you the option of moving the pipe for the shutoff outside the wall.
    At five inches above the floor, you have
    Standard 12" rough, 1-3/4" behind the trapway.
    Nonstandard 12-1/2", 2-1/4"
    Nonstandard 13-1/4", 3-0"

    We've also used the Dahl stop before too.
    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2007
  7. Verdeboy

    Verdeboy In the Trades

    Messages:
    2,051
    What's "unsafe" are the polybutylene shutoffs in many of the trailers and doublewides I work on. One hard jolt often does rupture that garbage.:eek:
  8. Livin4Real

    Livin4Real New Member

    Messages:
    192
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    If you need any measurements on the ultramax just let me know. I'm sitting next to one in my living room until I can get the floor tiled in the bathroom :)
  9. davidz

    davidz New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Woodinville, WA
    LOL! And thanks for the offer, which I'll take you up on: The spec sheet for the Ultramax shows the rear of the drain of the toilet pretty much in line (vertically) with the rear of the tank. Is this pretty much the way it is? Thanks!
  10. davidz

    davidz New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Woodinville, WA
    Thanks, Terry, for the info.
    The Dahl valve, while possibly overkill ($$) given your statement about copper 90's being fine, just looks better and makes my wife -- and myself, I must admit -- feel better about leaks and stability. A search of your site indicates that you don't sell this valve; I'd gladly be corrected on this.

    Also, since the rough-in is 13-1/4", I wonder if the Carlyle might be a better choice than the Ultramax, since we want to position the toilet such that the tank is as close to the wall as possible (for aesthetic reasons). The Carlyle spec sheet says that the drain connection can be put at 10", 12", and 14". Do you happen to know if it's more granular than that, i.e., if we can position it such that the centerline is 13-1/4", thus making the tank as close to the wall as possible?

    Thanks!
  11. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,136
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    At 13-1/4", you should have about 3-0" behind the trapway.
  12. True Story

    I did work for a guy that did his own plumbing at his house.

    He roughed in his water line to the toilet at the same height and right to the side of the tank next to the trip lever. :eek: :eek: :eek:



    "Dude!!! What was you thinking??!!!"

    He thought the water supply had to go there since he figured that's where you push the button to flush/fill back up.

    Thank goodness he kept his day job.
  13. davidz

    davidz New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Woodinville, WA
    This makes sense, Terry, but how far from the wall does this cause the toilet tank (vs. the trapway) to be? My wife is very adamant that we attempt to get the tank as close as possible.

    Thanks!
  14. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,156
    Location:
    New England
    If you want the tank as close as possible to the wall with that 13-1/4" flange position, check the specifications for 14" rough-in toilets. Some are likely to fit. Most toilets have somewhere from 1/4-3/4" behind them when the flange is in its 'proper' position, which yours isn't. I'd look at the Toto's that use the Uni-fit adapter which lets the same toilet work at either 10, 12, or 14" standard offsets. If you look at the spec sheets, it will show the clearance with 'proper' flange positions, if it is 3/4" or more, it will fit. An alternative would be to move the flange to where it should be.
  15. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,136
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    But since the valve is right behind the trapway, maybe she should consider a different brand.

    There are some two piece toilets that use big fat tanks that fit closer to the wall when the rough-in is so far out from the wall.

    Most tanks never touch the wall. Does she want it to touch?
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