Using a Thermal Break for a basement heated floor - Recommendations from NuHeat

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by johnfrwhipple, May 1, 2014.

  1. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Personally, I do not think I've heard any floor warming systems thermostats, and for someone who has not used DitraHeat and got some incorrect information from someone already on the product, I'd take the report of sound level of their thermostat as suspect as well.
  2. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2014
  3. DougB

    DougB Member

    These thermostats control the line voltage (to the heater wire) via a relay. It's a small click - I've heard it with my Honeywell's. Can't say about the other T-Stats.
  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    What is she comparing it to?

    A solid state relay doesn't need to click, but most use a 'real' one because they are cheaper. And, no, I don't make it a habit of sitting around listening and waiting for a floor warming thermostat to turn on and off - I've not lived in a place with line voltage thermostats. And, most people probably have not heard many different ones to compare. Most thermostats in homes are 24vac, and the relay contacts don't carry much of any current, so their size is small and the sound they make is often minimal. Line voltage ones need to carry a fair amount of current, so unless solid state, will be noisier than one controlling your a/c or heating system (unless you have line voltage there, not as common). So, if the comparison is between a standard HVAC thermostat and a line voltage floor warming one, nearly any floor warming thermostat will seem noisy. Without knowing the reference and context, yes, she could be making an incorrect judgment. Apples to apples.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
  5. DougB

    DougB Member

    A solid state realy that will take 115v 15 amps, is probably a lot bigger (like maybe a heatsink) than a magnetic relay.

    I think the people who have the complaint are using them for in-floor heat in their bedrooms or the master bath entrance is through the bedroom.
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    I agree, when you are sleeping, or trying to, little noises seem to be amplified to annoyance. But, after awhile, people tune them out as normal, like people that can sleep through a train going by, or their grandfather clock chiming.
  7. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    A little birdie told me that the layout lines on the cable are not visible .

    I wouldn't want to remove a broken tile on that system . Do you think the megger will help you change it ?
  8. RedShoecounterbalance

    RedShoecounterbalance Stay away from ladders

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    Meanwhile back at the ranch( 1 of a few), Vegas is trying his best to install a lippage free tile floor and soon he will share his pics...
  9. Vegas_sparky

    Vegas_sparky Digital Billy

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    IMG_20140614_080817095.jpg The train wreck continues on, RSCB. The little mosaics at the threshold were a real Whipple.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2014
  10. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    That is only one course of mosaic tile. Suck it up sister.

    This was a real pain.


    [​IMG]
    before grout prep

    Look down the edge of the sill. See the light highlighting the green glow of the tile. The sun comes in and the edge glows almost like it's back lit. Should look pretty slick when the LED's are on at night as well.

    [​IMG]
    after grout

    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
  11. Vegas_sparky

    Vegas_sparky Digital Billy

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    Those green tiles are all greem. What are you talking about?
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2014
  12. Vegas_sparky

    Vegas_sparky Digital Billy

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    Remember this experiment? The floor has held up fine, although it gets very little traffic. Lows will be in the 20°f range this weekend, and I'll see if there's a measurable temperature difference.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2014
  13. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    Thanks for the research Vegas.

    Is this made "Back Yard Science" or is the test in a controlled lab? I prefer the later myself over company paid and funded testing....
  14. Vegas_sparky

    Vegas_sparky Digital Billy

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    This is no lab.

    Clouds came in, and its not very cold(34°f). Just measuring surface temp there's no difference between raw slab, and Easymat/SLC/tile.

    I'm hoping the EM provides enough insulation to allow quicker warm ups with the heating wire, and keeps the slab from sucking the heat out.

    Further testing required.

    IMG_20141102_062028710.jpg
  15. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    That's a nice looking tile -- the center one -- Vegas , it looks like Honey Onyx . :)

    I did some readings at my place of the basement tiled floor -- no heating under -- and they were at 68 F vs. the upstairs floor tiles at 72 F . And then did the test heated areas , can't be happier with the readings .

    Could you put your thermostat at 80F and see the difference in the readings from the floor vs. thermostat ? Same time it will also tell you how long it takes for the tiles to come up to the demanded temperature .
  16. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    Vegas that's not good. Sorry to hear that.

    Any chance you left out the thermal break anywhere that can be measured? We need to install a job in zones with a couple different systems. Then we could do a better job measuring the effectiness of the work.

    You got to think it's better with the system than without....
  17. Vegas_sparky

    Vegas_sparky Digital Billy

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    As soon as I run power to the stat, mount it, and terminate it I'll see how long it takes to warm. Don't rush me, man. LOL
  18. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    Vegas - please check out my last post on the Hydro Ban Kerdi discussion. You ever seen heating cables run like that? I have never seen it. The Sparky said it's OK and that they have done it before.....

    Sounds like and easier option than shorting the cable..... Sounds like a cheaper option that ordering a custom cable. Sounds like a faster option than doing the right thing....
  19. Vegas_sparky

    Vegas_sparky Digital Billy

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    The area in the little cubby with the water main has no EM/heat(control area). The area directly adjacent, and around it does. I don't think anything is bad. I just think I need more severe conditions to make a comparison.

    All my findings shall be loosely based on errant speculation. o_O
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2014
  20. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    My bad , Vegas. ;)

    I think you can see benefits when the heating is on , but hardly achieved by a thin layer as a thermal barrier .
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