Unions. Yes or NO?

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Cookie

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Gary,
My sister worked at a Walmart as well as a few of my students. Some teachers I know of moonlight at Walmart and what I say is unfortunately, too true. They are really taken advantage of, it is ok, if you are a student trying to catch a few bucks, or even a teacher working on the summer months when school is not in session, but ...

...for moms trying to make ends meet; for dads trying to support a family, really for anyone who needs the pay to eat, or to live it is a disgrace.

Not everyone has degrees, had the same opportunities of others, some are not able to do a job anymore than a salesperson ( and no shame in that) so, there is why big business needs to be controlled somehow. They have big money and big money makes big greed.

I believe in freedom. I also know there is a time and place where a union is necessary. Usually the size speaks for itself.

Unions my friend, are the backbone of this country. As much as we don't like being controlled, most of us are not as rich as cooperate execs, large business owners or those with the mega bucks. Most of us, are small bread earners, hoping to live the American Dream of owning our own home, having a couple of kids, being able to buy a loaf of bread and milk, a car and if we should be so lucky to have any frills that would be great.

It is for those people, that unions are a necessity.
 
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Master Plumber 101

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Yeah, of course not.
Nobody ever asked the other guys to slow down either.

But they did ask me to slow down.

I helped out some friends one time, renovating a Junior High in Sammamish. They "said" they were behind six weeks.
At the end of the first week they let me go, saying that I had caught them up.
Terry, I would question your friend's, if that's what they were. I don't know why any contractor would ask you to slow down that's crazy, if you were working in a power house, and the project was going to last several years, I heard of that, But not when your out from job to job. I have had a great expirence with my union[ and continue to do so. Also keep looking at past thread's to tear me down, I'll just keep coming back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Terry

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Plumber 101,

No one is trying to tear you down.
You like working union, and that's great.

If they had enough work for someone like me, I would have stayed.
They kept the slower guys.
It used to bother them when I got done with the jobs so quick.
They preferred working with the "steady" guys.

Some of us blinding fast guys wind up with our own businesses.
That's all.
 

Basement_Lurker

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Yeah, of course not.
Nobody ever asked the other guys to slow down either.

But they did ask me to slow down.

I helped out some friends one time, renovating a Junior High in Sammamish. They "said" they were behind six weeks.
At the end of the first week they let me go, saying that I had caught them up.

When I was a supervisor at Phoenix Mechanical Contractors, I went on a Saturday to plumb for a day. Or at least I was going to do a days work.
One of the other owners showed up one and a half hours late that morning, but I was almost done. I took me two hours, and then I went home.
Was he happy? the other owners? Oh heck no. They hated that I was that much faster.

Plumbing houses in the 70's, our three man crew would rough in five houses a week. We only were allowed to work 40 weeks.

If I was by myself, I could drive 1/2 hour each way, run copper for a three bath home and get back to the shop in 6-3/4 hours.

I could also knock a hole in a 8" concrete wall in five hits with a sledgehammer.

I worked with 150 other plumbers. The president of the company told one of the supervisors that I had the fastest rough-in crew.
And the least amount of problems. When I was an apprentice, I went eight months without a copper leak.

Yeah, I got asked to slow down a bunch of times.



JESUS H CHRIST!!! You were a machine! I'll have to think of you as Robo-plumber from now on!
 

Master Plumber 101

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Terry, I hope you and everyone else can understand I did not pose this questions on unions to argue, but rather find out why people settle for less. Because I find this to be true, not one person has stated,what there hourly pay is non-union?What type of health care they recieve thru there employer's?What type of pention does there employer provide, if any? Do they get paid mileage if they have to travel for long distances to the job? Say if the job is 75miles one way. Do they have to supply all there tool's just to work? But instead I get nothing but disrespect and hateful coments and people questioning my exp. or credential's. As long as people respond I will continue to post.
 

Terry

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I don't think it's that important that people discuss what they make here.

That's kind of a personal thing.

And everybody has their own idea of freedom.

In school, they told me it was best to spend more years in school.
I just kept thinking, no way, I feel as done as I want to be.
A lot of construction types are that way, they are cowboys at heart.
They like to fix things, have a good woman, and a beer at night,
Maybe play a little softball and swim in the Summer.
When the moon is shining over Waikiki, it feels good to have the sand between your toes, water hitting your legs, and a womans hand in yours.

101, I think you worry too much.
 

Master Plumber 101

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I don't worry to much, I just want to know if people are advocating non-union is the way to go and they state how great it is why can't they share this information, personal or not.
 

Redwood

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Cause I wouldn't want to see you cry.
lemonplumber.gif

I love my job and all it brings to me and my family.
You cite all these benefits...
What makes you think that I don't have that?
If I didn't I would have used the handles on my tool box...

Some of us do very nicely as free agents!
 
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Gary Slusser

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Cookie, we'll just have to agree to disagree because I don't agree with government doing social engineering to make up for the poor choices people make on their own. I believe that makes them dependent and irresponsible for their decisions. We've had 45+/- years of that and as we see, it hasn't worked.
 

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Yikes, Gary social engineering? So many times it is the luck of the draw for people. There are people who can fall arse backwards into money, into good luck, into love, into great opportunities. They are just lucky enough to be at the right place at the right time, most of the time they had much more going for them from the start. Am I my brothers keeper?

I have a girlfriend whose husband died even sooner than my own, her son was only 5 at the time. She was a Walmart worker trying to support herself and her son. It couldn't be done. They worked her 10-12 hours a day, didn't pay her overtime and then, at the end of the week cut her hours back to say she worked only 40. They had her working a fork lift even though she felt uncomfortable and afraid doing so. Christmas night she had the choice of coming in at 10 pm or 3 am, every year, and she never got a raise when she asked for it. What poor choice did she make? In marrying her husband who died in his 30's? In finishing only high school? Not everyone can afford college, or is college material. Not everyone can afford trade schools, they are very expensive. Not everyone has parents alive, and if they are alive can foot the bill.

Eventually, she struggled hard enough and long enough, and earned a college degree. She now listens to the woes of stressed out execs. I guess tired from counting their money. :D I gave her a gold star once for her forehead for kindness; for I would had shown them my boot. They weren't very kind to her and she wasn't the only one.

But, yes, we can agree to disagree.
 

Master Plumber Mark

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Terry----well put...

Plumber 101,


Some of us blinding fast guys wind up with our own businesses.
That's all.


Terry I totally agree....

That is why you have your own business and probably
could not work for anyone ever again.......

I recently had a cousin that was blinding fast too....
he did peice work for builders around here and did
very well until the bottom fell out....

Worked for me part time for a while then I told him
to go apply at the UNION...just to see what they had to offer..

he is very happy there now but he has gained
about 15 lbs and about everything you have stated is true...

he too had to learn to....... ...........slow down....................

they show up about 20 minutes late, sit in the trailer till
about 8.15.... get the tools out and start hitting it till their
first mid morning breakaat 10.30 then lunch...

then they usually start winding things up and
putting the tools up about 30 minutes before quitting time.......


he literally jokes about how if he gets down in the hole
and grabs a shovel to move just a little bit of dirt,....
the ditch diggers get mad at him for doing their job.....LOL..


they have pizza partys on Friday afternoon for lunch........
he seems happy and makes well over 50k per year..
has benefits, a retierment plan and isnt dong work at night.

He thanked me for sending him in that direction......


and I suppose its all good till the bottom falls out.
and you land on a bench for 6 months...

money management is very important if you work Unioin...

save for the benched times.......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess its all a life style choice....
and goes with the type of personality
that you have.....

here are a couple of good Examples ..of the differences
between type A personalities and all the others forms of life out there..

I AM TYPE A.......


nothing pisses me off more than

when you send an employee out to your truck to get something
and they have to stop everything and sneak a cigarette....
10 minutes later they come back into the house with a dazed look
on their face and totally forgot what they went out to the truck for in the first place...

Nothing irratetes me more than
its only going to take another 25 minutes to totally finish
the job and move on to the next event for that day ....

but its 12 noon and time to stop for the lunch break.... ....
right on the dime...drop everything,,,
then go drive to Mcdonalds and play footsies under the table with
each other for 45 minutes.....
then come back and drag the job out till 2.45.


Or how about makeing the mistake of handing them their checks
on Friday morning and then wondering why they are
late to their first service call...... they went to the bank and stood in line for 40 minutes to cash it!!!!
( I only did that one time....)


if these things dont irritate you then you really
need to just work for someone......
cause you are not going to make it in business.








...
 
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Master Plumber 101

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Again, a complete mis conception of union's. If any of my emloyee's were doing that they would be let go on the spot. Because your blinding fast that mean's you have to be non- union? That's insane!! And in my past exp., guy's who boast how fast they are usually, do sloppy work and never live up to expectation's they make them self's out to be. I'm not saying that's how you are, but it's usually true.
 
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Redwood

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Again, a complete mis conception of union's. If any of my emloyee's were doing that they would be let go on the spot. Because your blinding fast that mean's you have to be non- union? That's insane!! And in my past exp., guy's who boast how fast they are usually, do sloppy work and never live up to expectation's they make them self's out to be. I'm not saying that's how you are, but it's usually true.

Again your Propaganda is misconcieved..
lemonplumber.gif


Being fast and being good go together. I manage to do a lot of work very quickly and make "Mad Money" doing it. I also have a callback rate of less than 1%. So here is your theory up in smoke...

blowup.gif


It's all about work habits and efficiency. Spending time in the right places and eliminating wasted time. The biggest savings is eliminating extra trips back and forth to the truck. Carry in everthing you need and might need the first trip. If you have to make more than 1 trip carry in everthing that you initially need then on the second trip carry out what you no longer need. Don't waste a trip either way.

Spend the time you save on doing the job right the first time so you have a low callback rate. Nothing wastes more time than a callback and they do not make you money.

Of course our Union Brothers have no incentives for this type of efficiency and that is why the scale tilts. They are locked into the rate. The more I do the more I make! I like it like that! My boss does too!
 
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Bob the Builder

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I had some what of a good expierience with union's. I was with my local 10yrs before I moved to Bobsville, I had a child born with a medical condition and eventually my health insurance ran out for my child. Wendy and I pleaded to the board to up the lifetime max. for our son. It was a no go. If they did it for us they would have to do it for all 2500 member's. As you can Imagine Wendy and I were furious, and were going to take Scoop and the gang down to the hall and knock it down. We paused, prayed and a year later a position opened up represented by the same local, but different health benefits, pention, etc.. If I did not stay were I was this great oppurtunity would not have been there for me. I also can remain in Bobsville and continue my work. It can be good both way's for trade union's to have union and non, it creates competition for both side's. All said and done I had to pay off $30,000 in medical debt in 1 yr.(I was very ambitious that year... I guess)

Know I got to go work for Farmer Pickel's... See Ya!
 

hj

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unions

if the member's don't like something they have the power to change it.

And which union might that be? Must be one in Podunk, because all the bigs ones have the election finalized before the members vote.
 

Terry

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guy's who boast how fast they are usually, do sloppy work and never live up to expectation's they make them self's out to be. I'm not saying that's how you are, but it's usually true.

Only someone that has "not" seen my work would say that.
One inspector that saw my work in Sammamish told the homeowner it was the straightest and best plumbing he had ever seen.
The next time I saw that inspector was in Seattle doing some commercial work. I didn't have the test on yet, but he remembered me.
"Give me the permit so I can sign it off, it looks perfect."

You can talk to any of the inspectors that see my work.
I hear comments like

"You should be giving lessons in this stuff you are doing,"

The reality, is that the company with the 150 plumbers was having me teach their best apprentices before they got their own vans.

The reason for the speed, was no mistakes, better layout, and able to do different things with each arm at the same time.
Not just ambidextrous, but able to do two things at the same time.
Guys that would race me worked with only one arm.
My first job was a mechanic at age 15. I did that all through high school, using tools. By the time I started into plumbing, it was a piece of cake.

I built houses for a while. One of my plans was bought twice by builders. I now see copies of my ideas all over the Eastside now.

When I was learning CAD, I was helping to teach architects at the Vo-Tech college. The city of Bellevue had never seen CAD plans for a building permit until I turned mine in.

When I was working on large projects, I would catch mistakes in the blue prints before they were made. The framers would wait until I gave them the thumbs up on it. One time when I was in my 20's, the General contractor on the 164 unit complex turned to the framer and said
"I don't know what he's talking about, but just do what the plumber tells you, he always seems to get it right."

101, Sometimes there are people that are born for this.
I'm just one of those guys.
I never saw anyone that did better work than mine.
If I was sloppy, it would have take longer.

Plumbers used to come over and ask if they could copy my layouts.
They had a hard time figuring out how I got by with so little fittings and pipe. I could take a paper set of plans and walk the house in my head, all three floors. Anytime my bosses had a problem with layout, they would call me in and ask me how I would do it.
101, It's just not hard for me, it's easy.
I couldn't live on your wages, sorry.
I need more than that.

The biggest savings is eliminating extra trips back and forth to the truck.
Amen to that brother. Jamie and I have that one down Redwood.
 
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