Bob the Builder
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What's A Union? We don't have those in Bobsville.
Unions. Yes or NO?
- Thread starter Master Plumber 101
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Dunbar Plumbing
Master Plumber
Oh really,
Who is better at story telling.......me or you?
http://www.contractors-license.org/wi/wi.htm
The Division issues the following plumbing credentials:
MasterJourneyman - restricted serviceMaster - restricted appliancePipe layerMaster - restricted serviceApprenticeJourneymanPlumbing learner - restricted applianceJourneyman - restricted appliancePlumbing learner - restricted service
To be certified as a master or journeyman, you need to pass an open book exam on Chapter 145 of the Wisconsin Statutes and sections of the Wisconsin Administrative Code. You'll get a copy of Chapter 145 with your credential application. To qualify for the master plumbing exam, you need 1,000 hours per year of work as a licensed journeyman plumber for at least three consecutive years or a degree in civil engineering, mechanical engineering, or other approved engineering degree related to plumbing.
Wow, just wow. I pay for an open book test, only work half the year for 3 years and I'm in like flint.
Here, for clarity that it's an open book test:
http://www.contractorexam.com/WI_P_MP.htm
Good Grief, You came to this site with your own quicksand!
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I've worked in the union and not in the union.
I don't see that much difference.
All plumbers take the same tests, and have the same continuing education requirements to stay licensed in the state of Washington.
A residential license is 6,000 hours and the commercial license is 8,000 hours.
The tests are "closed" book. You have to know it.
They say that 50% are passing the tests currently, not as good as in the distant past when I broke in.
I like readiing though, so it was never an issue.
The stats, numbers and charts are fun too.
I haven't worked for any "slacker" unions, so I have no idea what that would be about. Everybody I've worked with, just works.
I don't see that much difference.
All plumbers take the same tests, and have the same continuing education requirements to stay licensed in the state of Washington.
A residential license is 6,000 hours and the commercial license is 8,000 hours.
The tests are "closed" book. You have to know it.
They say that 50% are passing the tests currently, not as good as in the distant past when I broke in.
I like readiing though, so it was never an issue.
The stats, numbers and charts are fun too.
I haven't worked for any "slacker" unions, so I have no idea what that would be about. Everybody I've worked with, just works.
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Hi Gary, because the world needs salespersons as well as every other occupation and the people who work there are basically unskilled labor who take a licking but keep on ticking. Walmart is too big, hiring those who basically need a job to provide for their young ones and get paid the worst.
Other variables includes inadequate health care, sometimes poor working conditions, etc.
This corperation shows exemplary behavior why unions are a necessary evil.
Other variables includes inadequate health care, sometimes poor working conditions, etc.
This corperation shows exemplary behavior why unions are a necessary evil.
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Master Plumber 101
In the Trades
For your information Rugged you have to have a degree in those ares in order to take the test,or you need to serve a apprenticeship completing the required hour's. You also can not pay a fee, walk in off the street and just take the test that's, crazy talk.We have one State exam and in my area there is no difference between residential and commercial for pay. And for for your info Rugged,it's open book because there is still alot of chart's to reference. If you don't know the material you will not pass because you can not spend all day searching for answers, you know the code or you don't. I do not not tell stories, so go brush your tooth and go to bed!!!!
hj
Master Plumber
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unions
Chicago union UA130, good. Because they never bothered you as long as you paid your dues.
Phoenix 469, bad. They try, or at least did when I was associated with them, to keep ALL outsiders out of the local union. When I came here they allowed outsiders in after 2000 hours in one year with the same company. It seldom happened because one of their bench warmers would be sent in to "bump" the employee back onto the bench to start over. My company told them that if they tried it with me, they would fire ALL their plumbers and put the all on the bench. Therefore the local changed the rules to make it so many hours in 2 years. When I approached that level, they changed it to 5 years. Then when I decided that I might want to move on because of changes in the company, the union said I could not leave or they would put me on the bench and not give me a new position for at least a year. That is the point at which I first became part of a company's management, which also did not sit well with the union, and a few months later started my own company.
Chicago union UA130, good. Because they never bothered you as long as you paid your dues.
Phoenix 469, bad. They try, or at least did when I was associated with them, to keep ALL outsiders out of the local union. When I came here they allowed outsiders in after 2000 hours in one year with the same company. It seldom happened because one of their bench warmers would be sent in to "bump" the employee back onto the bench to start over. My company told them that if they tried it with me, they would fire ALL their plumbers and put the all on the bench. Therefore the local changed the rules to make it so many hours in 2 years. When I approached that level, they changed it to 5 years. Then when I decided that I might want to move on because of changes in the company, the union said I could not leave or they would put me on the bench and not give me a new position for at least a year. That is the point at which I first became part of a company's management, which also did not sit well with the union, and a few months later started my own company.
Redwood
Master Plumber
Really!
I hate to burst your bubble but your Wisconsin card and $5 will get you a cup of weak watered down funny tasting coffee at most Starbucks locations in Connecticut.
To plumb here you would have to pay the fee (it's about the revenue) and take the test. You would also have to see if your existing credentials are recognised. Of course you would have to unlearn some of the Wisconsin methods like the lav sink trap below the floor and learn a few things where you seem to have less than proficient knowledge in order to pass the test.
I'm not sure if they would allow you to test right away for the master test or if you would have to hold the journeyman for the prescibed time... Moot Point!
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Master Plumber 101
In the Trades
I hate to burst your bubble but your Wisconsin card and $5 will get you a cup of weak watered down funny tasting coffee at most Starbucks locations in Connecticut. per RW. If you understood what I said it was except a few select states. And the same applies to you RW. What's the lav trap below the floor? Never heard of that.
Master Plumber 101
In the Trades
hj, I'm not sure how the union's you assosiated with work,but where I'm from I have not experienced that, sorry you had to.
Redwood
Master Plumber
I'm getting a little tired of explaining code to Wisconsin plumbers that don't know their own code!
The following is from the Wisconsin Plumbing Code. http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/code/comm/comm082.pdf
Sheesh!
Master Plumber 101
In the Trades
I never installed a lav, shampoo or cuspidor trap below the floor.... That's why
Dunbar Plumbing
Master Plumber
This was an easy one to snuff out folks. It's like a guy who you hire to do work, they say they have all these credentials, and when you put them in the field, you start seeing their inadequacies real quick.
To be toting the username "master plumber"....you should be doing more than open book tests and literally paying for your license, unlike earning it like the majority of us do. Starting threads about unions was another fine work of art to describe someone in need of attention.
First time I've ever seen a master plumber openly tell a member to go google information about private sewage systems. It's covered in the code whether NPC, UPC, IPC.
Your knowledge base is certainly lacking, especially when others have to reference codes from your state to make you realize they exist.
Class is in session
To be toting the username "master plumber"....you should be doing more than open book tests and literally paying for your license, unlike earning it like the majority of us do. Starting threads about unions was another fine work of art to describe someone in need of attention.
First time I've ever seen a master plumber openly tell a member to go google information about private sewage systems. It's covered in the code whether NPC, UPC, IPC.
Your knowledge base is certainly lacking, especially when others have to reference codes from your state to make you realize they exist.
Class is in session
Marc46
HVAC Contractor
This thread is pretty entertaining!
I can not tell you the procedure for plumbers here, but for my trade HVAC,......you must have four years of "full-time" continuous employment in the trade. One of those years must be in a "supervisory" position.
You then must obtain letters of reference,......including 2 from currently licensed contractors in good standing, recommending you be allowed to sit for the exam.
The exam is a 2 day venture given in various large metro areas, so you must travel to the exam location. The fail ratio is huge, and I personally know several folks that have taken it 3 or 4 times, and given up.
If you pass, and wish to use your license for contracting,.......then we move on to the financial part. Personal, and business,......if a partner in a company before,.......credit checks are run.
You must prove that you have a minimum amount of operating cash in the bank. I believe it is around 25K now.
Proof of insurance, and WC coverage, or a valid exemption.
You then get a QBL license, and can start working! It's a blast!
This applies to state certified licenses,.....which is what I hold, in Class A (unlimited,commercial). That is the highest, and entitles me to work anywhere in the state, and to bid work for State, and Federal work. The number begins with CAC******.
The old county licensed folks were grandfathered, but they can only work in the county they were licensed in years ago. Those numbers start with RA here. County licensing was eliminated a number of years ago.
We have a 2 year license renewal cycle, and of course CEU hours required before the renewal date.
I can not tell you the procedure for plumbers here, but for my trade HVAC,......you must have four years of "full-time" continuous employment in the trade. One of those years must be in a "supervisory" position.
You then must obtain letters of reference,......including 2 from currently licensed contractors in good standing, recommending you be allowed to sit for the exam.
The exam is a 2 day venture given in various large metro areas, so you must travel to the exam location. The fail ratio is huge, and I personally know several folks that have taken it 3 or 4 times, and given up.
If you pass, and wish to use your license for contracting,.......then we move on to the financial part. Personal, and business,......if a partner in a company before,.......credit checks are run.
You must prove that you have a minimum amount of operating cash in the bank. I believe it is around 25K now.
Proof of insurance, and WC coverage, or a valid exemption.
You then get a QBL license, and can start working! It's a blast!
This applies to state certified licenses,.....which is what I hold, in Class A (unlimited,commercial). That is the highest, and entitles me to work anywhere in the state, and to bid work for State, and Federal work. The number begins with CAC******.
The old county licensed folks were grandfathered, but they can only work in the county they were licensed in years ago. Those numbers start with RA here. County licensing was eliminated a number of years ago.
We have a 2 year license renewal cycle, and of course CEU hours required before the renewal date.
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Master Plumber 101
In the Trades
In unity, there is strength. By coming together, skilled workers are able to speak with one strong voice to ensure their interests are represented in public and political forums.
Union membership also provides the power of collective bargaining. Through collective bargaining, union and management can work together to ensure employers achieve fair profitability while employees earn decent wages and receive fair treatment. Orderly procedures for determining wages, hours, rates of production and policies for promotion and layoffs can also be established.
Joining the union is the only way you can gain the power to work with your employer on an equal basis to create strength and security for all in the industry.
Of course, union membership also offers many more benefits, listed below.
Health Services
Since 1955, Plumbers Union has been proud to offer the very best healthcare benefits to our members. In fact, our current package of services is one of the most comprehensive available. Benefits include dental and optical coverage, a prescription drug program and major medical coverage including hospital services, organ transplant and routine physical examinations. Best of all, these services are not only available to you but also to your entire immediate family. But our commitment to your health extends beyond mere hospital and doctor visits. We also offer a wide variety of preventive care and wellness programs, including weight loss treatment, health promotion, cancer screening, family services and more.
Pension Fund
With our Pension Fund, the benefits you receive from union membership won’t stop even when your working years end. To provide you with the peace of mind in your retirement, we offer a comprehensive, secure pension plan. It’s based on a simple formula: the more hours you work, the higher your monthly benefit throughout your retirement. Also, because our resources are pooled with other building trades, our Pension Fund offers combined strength and security you can count on when you decide to call it a career.
401(k) Savings
In conjunction with our Pension Plan, participation in a 401(k) program is an excellent way to ensure a comfortable, worry-free retirement. Because the money you contribute to your 401(k) is completely tax deferred, this plan represents one of the very best investment opportunities available. As you watch your money grow in your 401(k) account, you can take comfort in knowing your nest egg is safe because the plan is managed according to sound investment strategies. Members are eligible to participate in the plan upon joining, although participation in our 401(k) is strictly voluntary.
Advanced Training
In today’s competitive environment, if you’re not keeping up with the latest developments in the industry, you’re falling behind. That’s why Plumbers Union
offers the education and resources you need to stay current.
To help you advance your career and promote quality within our membership, requires members to complete a minimum of 10 hours of continuing education classes per year. After all, when you’re a union member, your success reflects well on all of us.
Legislative Advocacy
Your interests are our interests. That’s why Plumbers Union Local 75 employs registered lobbyists to represent us in Wisconsin and Washington DC. Their job is to ensure that our members are protected as both plumbers and working people in general. Our legislative activism has strengthened Wisconsin’s plumbing license law. We have also fought against low-quality plumbing products that endanger our public health and reduce the quality of construction around our state
Union membership also provides the power of collective bargaining. Through collective bargaining, union and management can work together to ensure employers achieve fair profitability while employees earn decent wages and receive fair treatment. Orderly procedures for determining wages, hours, rates of production and policies for promotion and layoffs can also be established.
Joining the union is the only way you can gain the power to work with your employer on an equal basis to create strength and security for all in the industry.
Of course, union membership also offers many more benefits, listed below.
Health Services
Since 1955, Plumbers Union has been proud to offer the very best healthcare benefits to our members. In fact, our current package of services is one of the most comprehensive available. Benefits include dental and optical coverage, a prescription drug program and major medical coverage including hospital services, organ transplant and routine physical examinations. Best of all, these services are not only available to you but also to your entire immediate family. But our commitment to your health extends beyond mere hospital and doctor visits. We also offer a wide variety of preventive care and wellness programs, including weight loss treatment, health promotion, cancer screening, family services and more.
Pension Fund
With our Pension Fund, the benefits you receive from union membership won’t stop even when your working years end. To provide you with the peace of mind in your retirement, we offer a comprehensive, secure pension plan. It’s based on a simple formula: the more hours you work, the higher your monthly benefit throughout your retirement. Also, because our resources are pooled with other building trades, our Pension Fund offers combined strength and security you can count on when you decide to call it a career.
401(k) Savings
In conjunction with our Pension Plan, participation in a 401(k) program is an excellent way to ensure a comfortable, worry-free retirement. Because the money you contribute to your 401(k) is completely tax deferred, this plan represents one of the very best investment opportunities available. As you watch your money grow in your 401(k) account, you can take comfort in knowing your nest egg is safe because the plan is managed according to sound investment strategies. Members are eligible to participate in the plan upon joining, although participation in our 401(k) is strictly voluntary.
Advanced Training
In today’s competitive environment, if you’re not keeping up with the latest developments in the industry, you’re falling behind. That’s why Plumbers Union
offers the education and resources you need to stay current.
To help you advance your career and promote quality within our membership, requires members to complete a minimum of 10 hours of continuing education classes per year. After all, when you’re a union member, your success reflects well on all of us.
Legislative Advocacy
Your interests are our interests. That’s why Plumbers Union Local 75 employs registered lobbyists to represent us in Wisconsin and Washington DC. Their job is to ensure that our members are protected as both plumbers and working people in general. Our legislative activism has strengthened Wisconsin’s plumbing license law. We have also fought against low-quality plumbing products that endanger our public health and reduce the quality of construction around our state
Master Plumber 101
In the Trades
Union Plumbers: Masters of the Craft
I can relate to what hj said.
If games weren't played, it would be nice.
Politics are not a good thing when it comes to your employment.
The unions I was in kept me pretty busy for the most part.
The last one didn't have enough work to keep someone like me busy.
I needed to slow down more if I was to keep working there.
It was easier to start my own business after a while, there was nobody asking me to work slower.
But like I said before, sometimes I did work with quality workers, though they all left at some point and started businesses.
If games weren't played, it would be nice.
Politics are not a good thing when it comes to your employment.
The unions I was in kept me pretty busy for the most part.
The last one didn't have enough work to keep someone like me busy.
I needed to slow down more if I was to keep working there.
It was easier to start my own business after a while, there was nobody asking me to work slower.
But like I said before, sometimes I did work with quality workers, though they all left at some point and started businesses.
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Marc46
HVAC Contractor
My best techs over the years also did the same,........no amount of money that was realistic for me to pay, or benefits would have kept them with me.
The best ALWAYS want to at least "try" it on their own.
I helped 2 of them get their license BTW, and they became competition for me.
Where they showed the types of people they were though, came in the form of not even attempting to go after ANY of my customers,...........I still wish them well.
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Master Plumber 101
In the Trades
Quote: By Terry
I needed to slow down more if I were to keep working there.
I never worked for a union contractor that wanted me to slow down. As well as any job's I ran, or worked on with other guy's. If you were a foreman and did well for the company they keep giving you more job's to supervising, that's the real world union or not.
I needed to slow down more if I were to keep working there.
I never worked for a union contractor that wanted me to slow down. As well as any job's I ran, or worked on with other guy's. If you were a foreman and did well for the company they keep giving you more job's to supervising, that's the real world union or not.
Gary Slusser
That's all folks!
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You are sounding like a union organizer.
Cookie.... but when employee and other statistics are checked, that is not true and sounds simply as anti WalMart propaganda.
Along that line I heard earlier today that in Allentown/Bethlehem PA there was a guy living next door to where a new WalMart was to be built. He led and eventually won a fight against it. He and all other the anti WalMart types were joyous for some time.
Now he is REALLY upset with noise etc. etc. (he mentions small explosions at times) from the recycling plant that has been built on the WalMart land next door to him. IIRC, it runs 3 shifts, 24/7. My wife and I laughed for more than a few minutes after hearing that, and said GOOD FOR HIM!, we believe in free markets and the American way.
And since we live in our motor home and travel quite a lot (since 1/10/06), currently we are in a USFS area for $7.50 a night outside Leadville CO at 10,000' 100' off the edge of a beautiful lake, a true Rocky Mountain high, we buy everything we can at WalMart. They allow us to spend the night and we partake of the local area businesses spending more money. When, like in OR and some in CO, they don't allow overnights (all the anti WalMart crowds' doings), we skip across/through the whole state and we are nowhere near alone, there's said to be like 3-4 million of us with many of us taking our money elsewhere. Proving that for every action, there is an opposite reaction and those instituting the action usually lose somewhere else, in this case local and state tax increases come to mind or, unions seem to have lost mucho bucks in lost membership and dues payments.
Cookie.... but when employee and other statistics are checked, that is not true and sounds simply as anti WalMart propaganda.
Along that line I heard earlier today that in Allentown/Bethlehem PA there was a guy living next door to where a new WalMart was to be built. He led and eventually won a fight against it. He and all other the anti WalMart types were joyous for some time.
Now he is REALLY upset with noise etc. etc. (he mentions small explosions at times) from the recycling plant that has been built on the WalMart land next door to him. IIRC, it runs 3 shifts, 24/7. My wife and I laughed for more than a few minutes after hearing that, and said GOOD FOR HIM!, we believe in free markets and the American way.
And since we live in our motor home and travel quite a lot (since 1/10/06), currently we are in a USFS area for $7.50 a night outside Leadville CO at 10,000' 100' off the edge of a beautiful lake, a true Rocky Mountain high, we buy everything we can at WalMart. They allow us to spend the night and we partake of the local area businesses spending more money. When, like in OR and some in CO, they don't allow overnights (all the anti WalMart crowds' doings), we skip across/through the whole state and we are nowhere near alone, there's said to be like 3-4 million of us with many of us taking our money elsewhere. Proving that for every action, there is an opposite reaction and those instituting the action usually lose somewhere else, in this case local and state tax increases come to mind or, unions seem to have lost mucho bucks in lost membership and dues payments.
Yeah, of course not.
Nobody ever asked the other guys to slow down either.
But they did ask me to slow down.
I helped out some friends one time, renovating a Junior High in Sammamish. They "said" they were behind six weeks.
At the end of the first week they let me go, saying that I had caught them up.
When I was a supervisor at Phoenix Mechanical Contractors, I went on a Saturday to plumb for a day. Or at least I was going to do a days work.
One of the other owners showed up one and a half hours late that morning, but I was almost done. I took me two hours, and then I went home.
Was he happy? the other owners? Oh heck no. They hated that I was that much faster.
Plumbing houses in the 70's, our three man crew would rough in five houses a week. We only were allowed to work 40 weeks.
If I was by myself, I could drive 1/2 hour each way, run copper for a three bath home and get back to the shop in 6-3/4 hours.
I could also knock a hole in a 8" concrete wall in five hits with a sledgehammer.
I worked with 150 other plumbers. The president of the company told one of the supervisors that I had the fastest rough-in crew.
And the least amount of problems. When I was an apprentice, I went eight months without a copper leak.
Yeah, I got asked to slow down a bunch of times.
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