Understanding a Steam Shower Sealed Slip Joint: Photo's, Sketches and Video Tutorial

[JohnfrWhipple]

Great picture RSCB. I use a whack of those NobleFlex Flashing myself. Built dozens of showers with them.

Great seaming medium for Custom Hybrid shower builds

 

[ShowerDude]

just noticed that the pdf. for Noble TS steam room drawing has the Sealed slip joint at floor to wall change of plane.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

I think they call it a soft joint. Not sealed slip joint.

I roll the Noble up the wall with no hard corner. A silicone bead the day before also gives this spot a little more movement I think in the future.

 

[ShowerDude]

page 5 on this drawing has a sealed slip and a soft joint in tile at bottom wall...?

John does this mean just as we mastered the cieling sealed slip its no longer valid!!

http://noblecompany.com/storage/doc..._TS_Installation_Instructions_TS062014-04.pdf

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

That is one of the original Noble specs. It shows the NobleSeal TS behind the concrete board. I never like this approach and do not recommend it. I prefer the other approach. If you find it hard finding the document email Eric or Richard at Noble and ask for it. They do not have every document uploaded.

 

[ShowerDude]

John look at the date on the pdf 6/2014 matbe tgat means they updated it .... seems pretty recent to me.

i do not see the point in behind the cbu installs. Just like A poly vapor barier you will proceed to insert a couple hundred screws thru it???? Hmmm?

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

That is why I think it is a dumb spec. I have spoken in length on the subject with Eric.

I think this spec is in place for speed steam showers. When you need to vapour proof and tile the same day.

noble does not want the membrane going up and then tile same day if the TS is installed over the cement board.

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

Question: Can you install Kerdi Board in a steam shower and then cover it with Kerdi DS? Just using the Kerdi Board as a backer board. I just read a specification this week that had just that spec outlined. Not sure I have seen that published anywhere by Schluter. If the guys build the steam shower this way. Is it an approved approach?

I'm meeting on Wednesday and will suggest the use of NobleSeal TS and cement Board. But the designer is sold on the double down approach from Schluter. I wonder what the Ardex boys think of this specification.

Clearly the old showers did not work that well. The job site looks like a third world country. nasty stuff. Rotating wood. Mold city. I get a few pictures up.

 

[ShowerDude]

so its OK for the mfg to give bad advice? pucture your vapourproof a few hundred times if your in a hurry?

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

I'm not sure if it's bad advice. Given the choice e between poly and NobleSeal TS behind and install I would think the NobleSeal would be better.

It's just an option. Not one you need to follow.

Have you called the guys Erik? Like I keep saying. Ask for the drawing I use for my builds. I think Richard emailed it to me.

 

[ShowerDude]

john bring a piece of 1" kerdiboard w/you and have the people hold it up while you kung fu thru it with your bare manhands....

then you hold a piece of 1/2 cbu and let them have a whack!!!

then move on to tearing the 2 membranes in pieces.

sales meeting adjourned.

 

[ShowerDude]

I'm not sure if it's bad advice. Given the choice e between poly and NobleSeal TS behind and install I would think the NobleSeal would be better.

It's just an option. Not one you need to follow.

Have you called the guys Erik? Like I keep saying. Ask for the drawing I use for my builds. I think Richard emailed it to me.

I have the same drawings i build my ts steamers the same spec John !!!!!

i found this pdf a little odd w/sealed joint at floor and the date published is all....

 

[Eurob]

page 5 on this drawing has a sealed slip and a soft joint in tile at bottom wall...?

John does this mean just as we mastered the cieling sealed slip its no longer valid!!

http://noblecompany.com/storage/doc..._TS_Installation_Instructions_TS062014-04.pdf

It looks like they reversed the ceiling slip joint to the floor & wall junction . They probably make their own recommendations .......... if conflicting recommendations appear , make the slip joint at both -- floor & ceiling -- junctions . Ask them what standards are they following for it ?

 

[ShowerDude]

It looks like they reversed the ceiling slip joint to the floor & wall junction . They probably make their own recommendations .......... if conflicting recommendations appear , make the slip joint at both -- floor & ceiling -- junctions . Ask them what standards are they following for it ?

the confusion may be intentional, more room for installer error and MFG opt out of false warrantys.

this is why im looking at pdf file date only 7 months old.

stupid design period.....IMRO

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

.....then move on to tearing the 2 membranes in pieces.

sales meeting adjourned.

I have not tried that sales approach.

I'm meeting with Ardex today.

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

.... Ask them what standards are they following for it ?

The detail is one I think Noble does not like to expand on. God knows I have tried.

When you study it. Ask yourself how inside corners are achieved.

We are looking for flexibility in the corner - this is the goal. In Australia their membranes are required to achieve a 300% elongation. Much Much Much harder than our standards. Down under you need to use some chalking and most times a liquid membrane to achieve this requirement.

 

[ShowerDude]

when I needed clarification on this detail, I called on John Whipple first ....even before noble.

the man appears to be one of only a couple people building steamers to this spec with A sealed slip joint...

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

Thanks Erik.

I had a meeting with my Ardex rep yesterday about a large commercial steam shower. I asked about the Schluter recommendation about covering Kerdi Board with Kerdi DS and asked about using X5 thin-set. It was recommended to me to use X78. I have never tried it before. Being the awesome rep that he is he is going to promo me a bag so I can do some mad lab testing, since he knows that is my goto approach.

I asked about the seaming of Kerdi DS with 8+9 and he likes the install done with just X5 or X78. I asked if I could later top the seams and that was a none issue.

We discussed the sealed slip joint and he seemed to like the science but wants the Ardex Schluter spec followed. That spec does not include the sealed slip joint.

Nothing better than free coffee and an hour meeting with a rep. I love learning about new products and past experiences. Learned a lot yesterday. The inside skinning is that I heard Ardex bought land out in Maple Ridge. This means some manuafacturing is coming into my own back yard... That is awesome news.

Next week I'll be trying out some new sku's for my rep. Prior to the release dates. I like that they do this. Even after I lamb basted them over the AF207. Feedback is feedback and I'm glad they value mine.