two shower heads and valves balancing loop

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by North, Mar 16, 2014.

  1. North

    North New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Alaska
    I am redoing the MB and installing a rain shower in addition to a wall shower head. Each shower head will have its own Delta R10000-UNBXHF Multichoice Universal Shower Only Valve Body and Delta T17T038-SS Lahara Tempassure 17T Series Valve. I have ½ inch copper supply line with good pressure. I put together this diagram with a balancing loop to each valve.
    My question is does anyone see anything wrong with my diagram?
    Is this the best way to do this?
    Thanks
    balance.jpg
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,999
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    There is no need for a balancing loop.
    Those valves have pressure balancing built in.

    Also, since those are slow closing valves, no need for hammer arrestors.
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2014
  3. DavidTu

    DavidTu Member

    Messages:
    239
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Nice drawings, in any case. What did you use to make them?
  4. North

    North New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Alaska
    Thanks for the info Terry. So there is no advantage to using a balanced loop? The loop is a little extra work but not much compared to the total project. If not then does it matter how I T off the water line to the two valves?

    I used Google Sketchup, Love the program! High learning curve though. You build it on the computer first then the real thing.

    Here is the whole shower. I removed the half wall (in the photo) so the shower would show.

    for love whole bath.jpg
  5. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,614
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Balancing loop AND the air chambers look nice but have no real function.
  6. North

    North New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Alaska
    So this is the setup without the loop. Is this how a professional would do it? Do I need the air chambers on both valves? I know some do not think they work but when we moved in the pipes were knocking and I drained all the lines then turned water back on with all valves open. I then closed all the valves from the highest first and it got rid of the knocking, so I think they do something. So is the proper way to install them, one at each valve or just at one valve?

    I just reread Terry's post and these valves are slow closing but I thought you put the air chambers at the highest point in the system so they are there not only for the shower but other valves on the bathroom line. Any thoughts are welcome.
    No Loop.jpg
  7. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,999
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    You can plumb it that way.
    Plumbing code only recongizes mechanical hammer arrestors now. The air chambers can water log. If you drain the home like you did, you can get them working again. Most people won't do that, so therefore they now want something mechanical.
    I used to do 3/4" air chambers on an upstairs shower.
  8. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,614
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Air chambers are effective, until they fill with water. Once that happens it is next to impossible to empty them, unless you do as you did and remove them, empty the water, and then reinstall them. Which is both impractical and impossible once the walls are sealed up. IF you use them, they MUST be installed as close to the faucet as possible, in line with the water flow. "Community" air chambers are essentially useless.
  9. North

    North New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Alaska
    Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to my posts, I really can't express my appreciation enough. Thank you, thank you. Time to start installing the shower!
  10. Bill Shack

    Bill Shack 30years plumbing 10years plumbing inspector

    Messages:
    45
    Location:
    montreal quebec Canada
    I disagree. Many are the times i had customers complain about water hammer noise in their older houses and i would go and shut the main stop then open every faucet in the house then close them. then open the main stop. this would recharge all the air chambers in the house.
  11. North

    North New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Alaska
    Thank you all for the help. I installed without a balancing loop (3rd photo I uploaded) as was suggested and all worked great. I left the shower pan in so I could test the pressure and operation of both showers at once and they both worked great with plenty of pressure and water from each shower head.

    The joints where solder was applied against gravity (I.E. the bottom of a vertical T Joint) were the most difficult. Not being able to see the solder flow in is what made it hard. Because I do not have a lot of experience, I was not trusting that enough solder was in the joint and kept adding solder until it was to much.

    Thanks!
  12. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,614
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; this would recharge all the air chambers in the house.

    IT is almost a physical impossibility, for the same reason water will stay inside an inverted soda bottle. But as long as your perception is that it worked, that is all that counts.
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