Troubleshooting well problems

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doktrred

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I have an 85 ' well with a pump and a well controller. The pump was replaced approximately 8 years ago. This well pumps uphill about 50 yards and I'd guess 12' elevation to a cistern I installed 10 years ago or so. Last Friday, I ran out of water in the cistern. I was on way to work, so I shut the breaker off to both sub pumps. I am currently hauling water from work to put into the cistern(something I had got used to doing over the last 7 years of extreme drought here in central Texas). This weekend I was able to do minimum investigation, while I wait for my home warranty company to send someone out. Could find no leaks and the cistern pump doesn't cycle on with all water faucets turned off. So....looks like the well is the problem.
With power to the well's pump, the green light is on on the well controller,(old unit, no idea brand etc.....), and there is a humm and fine vibration coming from the well cap, so I assume, there is power to the pump. I checked inside the controller and the "power box" on the side of the casing, there were no ants in the works, and no obvious burn marks on any of the electronics. In the power box I believe I counted 4 wires and a ground(not sure if this is a 3 wire w/gnd or a 4 wire????). I let the breaker stay on for about an hour, and the well controller never shut the pump down! Not sure if this means the pump isn't over amping or if the controller is shot, but not showing signs of that. I wasn't sure how to go about checking the amp draw on the pump. I don't "wing it" with electricity.
There is no water at a faucet near well nor is there any water coming into the cistern . The pressure tank is buried beside the well, so no way of easily checking that. Apparently it is common in this area to bury the pressure tank, as I know of several other folks with same setup. Even during the height of the drought, i could usually get some water periodically into the cistern. We got a lot of rain earlier in the year, our lakes that were severely low, are full, so I don't think this is a no water in the well situation.
Ideas?
Thanks, Mike
 

Reach4

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Post a picture of the inside of the controller and the "power box". Get a clamp-around ammeter for troubleshooting. I am not a pro, and I am not going to be the one to best interpret your readings.

The simplest problem would be just a bad start capacitor, but things may not be that simple.

With a well that runs dry, you should have a device that shuts down the pump for an interval when you run out of water. That works by monitoring the current drawn by the pump. https://cpkits.com/collections/cycle-sensor-pump-monitors is such a device.
 

Valveman

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I think the controller with the green light is some kind of dry well protector. And I am assuming that the green light means all is well. I would clip an amp meter around one of the incoming L1 or L2 wires and see how many amps it is pulling. My guess is it is pulling max amps because you have a hole in the pipe. The hole is probably right at the pump.
 

doktrred

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Reach4, thanks for the reply. I will try and get a pic this evening. What I am calling the controller is designed to shut the pump off with low water conditions, and it did just that in the past(last few years). There were many times over the last few years, that the red light would be on indicating it shut the pump off. At the height of the drought, I would close the cistern inlet valve I installed on the well side of the cistern just so water would trickle from the well and I had hopped prevent frequent starts/stops. It is currently set at a 90 min. delay.
 

Valveman

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Reach4, thanks for the reply. I will try and get a pic this evening. What I am calling the controller is designed to shut the pump off with low water conditions, and it did just that in the past(last few years). There were many times over the last few years, that the red light would be on indicating it shut the pump off. At the height of the drought, I would close the cistern inlet valve I installed on the well side of the cistern just so water would trickle from the well and I had hopped prevent frequent starts/stops. It is currently set at a 90 min. delay.

If you restricted the flow to the cistern and the well pump has a pressure switch and pressure tank, you may have cycled the pump to death. You normally do not want anything but a float switch and the dry well relay running the well pump. Then the pressure switch and pressure tank need to be on the pump that boost water out of the cistern to the house.
 

doktrred

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Valveman, If the well has water and the pump is pumping(just not to a pressure tank), so it never shuts off, would it be running at max amp capacity, but not high enough to trigger the controller to shut the pump off?
 

doktrred

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So it would be better to leave the valve at the cistern open, which I had barely cracked open, and let pump run dry and then restart in 90 minutes, then to let it fill the pressure tank, then the pressure tank slowly empties then it refills the tank type thing? I''m trying to learn so I don't make the same mistakes in the future.
I didn't think about the possibility of the pump cycling more often the way I did it, than it would if I had left the valve wide open!
 

Valveman

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Max amps would mean you have a hole in the pipe and the water is just circulating round and round. Low amps would mean the well is dry, the pump is worn out, or you have a blockage in the line.

You could restrict the flow to the cistern if you did not have a pressure tank/pressure switch on the well pump and the pump would not cycle. With the pressure switch/pressure tank you have to fill the cistern with enough flow to keep the well pump from cycling. So in that case yes it is best to open the valve fully to the cistern and not let the pressure switch cycle the pump.
 

doktrred

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Thanks for the info,
I will see if I have time today to hook up an ammeter( not sure if there is enough room in the power/junction box to hook a meter, may have to pop the well cap.
 

doktrred

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So the breaker might be easier. does it matter which hot leg I clamp at the breaker?
 

Reach4

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No. They are equal except in some rather unusual circumstances.
 

doktrred

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Sorry it's taken me a while to get back with y'all. I put an amp meter on one of the legs at the breaker and got very low reading. Less than 1 amp(on the 20 amp scale). A well guy is coming this Saturday to look at things and I will try to let y'all know what he says.
Thanks again for the help.
 
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