trouble removing metal rimmed kitchen sink

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by Noahsoak, Jan 19, 2009.

  1. Noahsoak

    Noahsoak New Member

    Messages:
    7
    never tried this before, want to install stainless steel sink, but, cant get the old metal rimmed sink out ( my husband put that in a few years ago). tried to loosen metal rim with a putty knife thinking caulk was stuck like glue (it is white, so I am assuming he used caulk)- but no luck - looked on the internet, no luck, only read i was lucky the sink didn't drop on my sons head who is trying to help me get that sink with the sprayer i have my heart set on. (I don't remember his dad using any 2 x 4 to keep the porcelain sink from dropping into the cabinet - saw that on the internet also) - So reconnected the water lines and drain pipe back to the old sink- and walked the new sink back to the barn - any words of wisdom?
  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,233
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    sink

    1. It is very unlikely that the sink will fall into the cabinet unless they removed or damaged the support devices built into the rim. Which should never have happened.
    2. The caulking may have gotten into the space between the side of the rim and the hole in the countertop where your putty knife can't reach it, making force the only way to separate it.
    3. You may have to pry the rim up, but the problem with that is if the caulk is in the groove you may chip the countertop doing so.
    4. You are trying to separate between the rim and the countertop, aren't you? You do not want to separate the sink from the rim.
  3. Noahsoak

    Noahsoak New Member

    Messages:
    7
    first I want to thank you for the reply. My son removed the clamps from underneath the sink, then ran a putty knife carefully just under the rim between the rim and countertop to loosen the grip of the caulkin, expecting the sink and rim all still attached to come up as one unit. The sink and rim did not budge. When you look under the sink through the cabinet, you can see a nice bead of caulk between the edge of the rim (the only thing i can think of to call it is the channel piece of the rim the sink edge sits next to) and the actual sink. The countertop is formica (that sounds dated), and we are trying to put in a rimless stainless steel sink). My brother in law, suggested as a last resort to use a jack to help lift up the sink - that seems like an extreme measure - dont want to damage my countertop trying to get the sink out - does that give you a picture of whats happening?
  4. gardner

    gardner DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    217
    Location:
    Ontario
    It sounds to me like the OP is describing a hudee ring sink. I have only had occasion to work with a couple of those myself, but my instinct is that if you undo all the clamps, the sink will drop right down.
  5. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego

    There are pop-out tabs on the hoodee ring that hold the sink temporarily until you get the clamps on. SO those hold the sink from dropping down.;
  6. Noahsoak

    Noahsoak New Member

    Messages:
    7
    yep, my metal rim - is your hudee ring 0)- i saw those pop out tabs - on the hudee ring underside, at first i thought they were some kind of nail - but they are a sharp metal tab that is sticking out - so we didn't push those flush with the metal ring under the sink - we left those alone - but, i do see a nice bead of caulkin between the ring and sink lip (edge) underneath - so even if we had pushed the pop outs down, and the clamps were removed (which they were) that caulkin would have kept that sink in place in the ring wouldn't it??? we thought the rim and sink would lift out all in one piece. so if, we push those tabs down - is it the consensus that the sink will drop? "bear with me - appreciate your patience - told my son, if your dad were here, i would leave the kitchen and come back in when I could use my new sink - 0) - a picture is worth a thousand words, the 2nd pic shows that caulkin bead - under the sink - well, before i further muddy the water - if i did this right - take a look

    Attached Files:

  7. gardner

    gardner DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    217
    Location:
    Ontario
    The hudee ring lav sink I did last didn't have any sort of temporary retainers that I could understand. When I was reinstalling it, I had to hold the cast iron sink while my wife fit a couple of clamps finger tight.

    Anyway, when you're done, make sure you save the ring, clamps and sink and put it on Kijiji or Craig's list or something -- there's a market for those retro sinks.

    Frankly, I think yours looks pretty good in the picture -- you could replace the faucet and be good to go. Even take it out and have the porcelain enamel re-done and have it look better than new. The porcelain enamel cast iron jobs are really solid hard-wearing sinks.
  8. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,802
    Location:
    New England
    I think the caulking is holding the sink in place like a good glue. It will likely take some force to remove it and you risk delaminating the formica around the sink area and possibly even splitting off some of the substrate.
  9. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,233
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    frame

    Huddee rims did not have the push out tabs, they used a bracket that fit across the corner to support the sink. Ardee rims used the tabs.
  10. Noahsoak

    Noahsoak New Member

    Messages:
    7
    metal rimmed kitchen sink

    ok, uncle - i don't want to ruin the countertop trying to get the sink out - cause that would be more of an eyesore than the sink - and you're right, that side of the sink does look pretty good 0) - it is the side under the water that the porcelain finish is gone - guess i couldve drained the sink - but wasnt thinking about that, ha. thanks fellers - think i will hang up my plumbing pliers 0) new faucet is an idea - got that and now after messing around with it - the left side of the sink under the sink basket IS leaking just at the top of the threads under the basket - oi vie' - well, i never used that bowl anyway
  11. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,233
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    sink

    That is a steel sink, so even if it had fallen down and hit you on the head it would probably not have hurt you. If you went to the trouble of removing all the clamps, I would have continued to the end, because a steel sink was not any good the day it was installed, and they only get worse from that time on.
  12. txsunshine

    txsunshine New Member

    Messages:
    2
    any update?

    we are in the same boat ... is there a way to pry it out w/o breaking the formica? moderator suggests continuing to the end ... how do we get to the end?
    :) thx!!
  13. kingsotall

    kingsotall Plunger/TurdPuncher

    I keep visualizing someone underneath the sink and just giving it his all and lifting up using his back. I don't know, too extreme¿

    Formica is weak to begin with, just look at it crooked and it chips.
  14. txsunshine

    txsunshine New Member

    Messages:
    2
    already tried the "heave with all your might" tactic. nothing but countertop lifting up (& not cracking, thankfully).
    i promise to stare squarely at my countertop from now on ;) thanks anyway...
  15. cwhyu2

    cwhyu2 Consultant

    Messages:
    1,331
    Location:
    Cincinnati OH
    Take a stiff sharp putty knife and gently tap it under the rim of the sink.
    Make sure the clamps are removed from the under side of the counter.
    Take your time and start at one corner and work your way around the rim.
    I have done this and it takes a lot of time .Just go little at a time.
    It will come up.don`t start pulling your hair out after 10 min.
    BTW you do this on the top side.It will come up once you get it started.
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2009
  16. bigthomas

    bigthomas New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Balky hudee ring

    I had the same problem, removing a stubborn hudee ring around my bathroom sink. I finally got the sink to pop out, along with the ring, by using the claw end of a hammer to pry up the ring. I had to go half way around the ring before the sink finally budged, but after a couple of hours of fruitless work on this job, I felt as if I had been liberated from prison when the sink finally moved.

    It's important to protect the countertop while prying with the hammer. I did this by using a flat rubber bathroom tub stopper, perhaps 4 or five inches in diameter. I rested the hammer head on that, moving it along as I edged around the ring with the claw. You should use a similar piece of plastic or rubber if you try this technique. It also helped that my wife and I had gone around the ring several times with a putty knife, loosening up the putty and providing just enough space for me to push the claw under the lip of the ring.

    I hope this helps.
  17. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,233
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Use a flat molding pry bar. Push it under between the rim and countertop then pry up slightly. Work from the center of one side around the front to the center of the other side. If the sink is still stuck, then work backwards on each side towards the back. Eventually, the front will release and then the back will separate on its own as you tilt the sink upwards. You have to resign yourself to the possibility that the sealer may have bonded to the countertop so tightly that there is no way to separate the sink without some chance of the Formica chipping.
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