Toto Ultramax II (1.28 GPF) Fill Valve issue? (Noise but no leaks?)

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by retrogameroom, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. retrogameroom

    retrogameroom New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Palmyra, PA
    Hello,
    I have a Toto Ultramax II (MS604114CEFG) which appears to have problem with the fill valve about 50% of the time. After you flush the toilet and the tank is full, the water stops filling the tank but the valve continues to make a faint sound as if it is not completely closed. I cannot find any obvious leaks and adjustments do not help. Water does not appear to be rising above the overflow tube. (I read about other problems with Toto fill valves in this forum)

    What does work to stop the noise is if I push down on the float to allow about an extra 1/4 inch of water in the tank. This always stops the sound. Do I need a new fill valve? If so, should I buy one from Toto an aftermarket valve?
    Thank you,
    Scott
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,053
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    You might check for an inline filter that could need cleaning.
    With those, you disconnect the supply line, and using needle nose pliers, pull the filter.
    It's in the paper work that came with the toilet.
  3. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,867
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Did you check to make sure that the rubber tube that runs from the fill valve to the top of the flush valve is properly positioned? The end of it should be attached to a little clip that holds it above the top of the overflow riser (the hollow tube that rises vertically above the flush valve) and pointed down into the overflow riser. This is the refill hose, and it puts water to refill your bowl down that tube and into the bowl. If one simply sticks it in the overflow riser rather than positioning it above, and the end of it falls below the water line, it can siphon water through the fill valve, perhaps leading to the noise you mention.

    Your fixing method basically adds water to the tank which increases the upward pressure on the float which then shuts off your water. This suggests that perhaps (and just perhaps) your house water pressure might be high, because it's taking more than the usual amount of pressure in the valve to cut it off. Just something to consider -- and high water pressure like high blood pressure ain't a good thing for almost the exact same reasons. But it also just might be that it's time for a new valve. From your description, it doesn't sound like you have the Korky valve. If you did you could replace the "guts" by buying a little $3 cap at HD. However, I'm thinking you have the Voreto valve with the exposed float. So all you can do is chuck that one.

    The valve we recommend is the Korky 528MP MaxPerformance fill valve with the silver cap. This one: http://www.lowes.com/pd_336988-868-528MPK_0__?productId=3284948&Ntt=korky&pl=1&currentURL=?Ntt=korky&facetInfo= The regular white-cap 528 will not refill your toilet enough, so don't use that, and the 528T "Fits Toto" fill valve with the blue cap will actually overfill the bowl, causing water wastage. So get the 528MP (MPK in Lowe's nomenclature).

    It's functionally-identical to the Toto TSU99A.X Universal Replacement Fill Valve (which is what Toto would sell you). In fact, the TSU99A.X is made by Korky for Toto. The Toto version does have a couple of extra items in the box that allow you to set it exactly how the factory set the valve on your toilet, so that you still get exactly 1.28gpf. The non-Toto version you adjust by eyeballing it. For me, saving the $20 on the price of the valve compensates for the extra ten gallons of water I might waste in a year by setting the valve myself.

    Sounds like you're all over it, but you can check out this video from Korky if you want to see how to install the 528MP:



    Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2014
  4. retrogameroom

    retrogameroom New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Palmyra, PA
    Thank you for all the help! Yes we do have very good water pressure here so that may have been part of the problem.

    For $10.00 I just went ahead and bought a new valve. It appears to have solved the problem.

    I attached a picture of the old valve.

    Thank again!!!!!

    [​IMG]
  5. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,058
    Location:
    New England
    While many generic toilet fill valves may appear to be working properly, they may in fact not be for one of several reasons, if you want to maintain the stated 1.28g flush. The outlet to fill both the tank and the bowl must be calibrated properly otherwise, it will either dump excess water down the bowl (it goes down the drain), or, it won't have put enough water into the bowl before the tank gets full. If the bowl is being overfilled, you're wasting water, but performance will remain the same (a toilet MUST have the bowl full before flushing, or it won't have the best performance). If the bowl is not full, you may find it frequently requires two flushes...the first one refills the bowl, the second one actually does a decent flush because you then got the bowl full. There are some aftermarket fill valves that are adjustable to get that correct balance - those from the Toto factory have had it done to them already, and if you get a new fill valve from Toto, it is generic to their toilets, and they tell you how to set it for your toilet.
  6. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,867
    Location:
    New York, NY
    As expected, that's a photo of the Voreto valve, which is one of the two that Toto uses. The other is a Korky.

    Not to be too much of a stickler about this, but there are only a few valves that will actually work properly and give you the same flush, even if at first glance they appear to be working properly.

    This is the case no matter what the guy at the local hardware store or Lowe's or HD says. They are all so often misinformed about the details of stuff like this.

    Like I said, we recommend the Korky 528MP MaxPerformance valve, on which you can adjust the refill ratio with a little knob.

    Fluidmaster makes a version of the 400A that will work; it's the one with the slider-thingy that allows you to adjust the refill ratio. The regular 400A won't fill your bowl enough to initiate the flush.

    Most other valves you can purchase locally will either underfill or overfill your bowl, so if it just isn't giving you that great Toto flush, or seems to be filling the bowl fully for several seconds before it shuts off (i.e. overfilling and wasting water), then you might pick up that 528MP to make sure it's working to factory specs.
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
  7. retrogameroom

    retrogameroom New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Palmyra, PA
    That is the valve I used. It took a little trial and error to get the water level to that of the original Fill Valve. Since the original part only worked for a little over a year, I was not about to buy another identical original part. (I'm guessing that the "Voreto" valve does not have as good of a track record as the Korky part?)

    The wife is happy and the toilet works fine!
  8. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,867
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Super! You got a good price on it. I think the Korky is a better part. Quieter, shuts off smoother. It's a little more complicated than the Voreto, which is made in China by Voreto to a Toto design. Korky is probably a bit more expensive, too, made in USA and all. Toto likes the Korky, as that's what they use as a universal replacement. I removed two Voretos from the two Totos in our home that came with them (third was a korky) and put in the 528. Very happy I did so, but it's just a personal preference.
  9. Starwarsith88

    Starwarsith88 DIY kid who loves toilets

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Sparta NJ
    To be honest, the Korky is a MUCH BETTER product than the vereto. They last 100% longer and they fill a lot quicker, I currently have 3 TOTO's.
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