Toto Supreme E Max Leaking?

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by dmwesq, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. dmwesq

    dmwesq New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    New York
    I have a Toto Supreme E Max that was installed about 8 months ago. It is just starting to make loud whining noise intermittently, and when I take the top off the tank there appears to be a slow drip from under the top of the fill valve. The instruction manual from Toto is virtually useless. Any ideas?
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Toto generally uses two different fill valves. One is easily repaired, one usually needs to be replaced when it fails. I think you should still fall within the warranty period, so I'd call Toto. If the valve you have has a plastic screw on the top, other than cleaning the filter, if it fails, it must be replaced. If it doesn't have that screw, there's a seal that probably will fix it - it takes less than a minute to replace once you've done it the first time.

    While you're dealing with this, you may want to check your incoming water pressure. None of the toilet valves like pressure out of range, and in the USA, the max it should ever be is 80psi. If yours is over that, code requires it to be regulated to 80 or less. Excessive pressure can cause that, too. Most common though is either dirt on the seal, or a bad seal. At 8-months, though, it's probably dirt, and removing the seal and cleaning it off will probably fix it, if it is the repairable version. Check the wwhttp://www.korky.com/installinstructions.html site for instructions. Scroll down to the Quiet-fill replacement cap.
  3. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

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    There is always a drip from the top of a anti-siphon valve like the Korky when it's refilling. Read the toto piece on servicing the fill valve that is often cited on here, and if that doesn't help, come back and we'll walk you through servicing it.

    Toto Servicing Instructions

    When does it whine? I.e. during filling, after shutoff, after the toilet has been sitting a while? Each suggests a different issue.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    22,051
    Location:
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    Make sure that the supply valve is fully open as well.
  5. dmwesq

    dmwesq New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    New York
    The valve is fully open. It makes this noise when the toilet has been sitting - did it all night last night - at some points it was about every 1/2 hour, then it slowed down and was less frequent, but the toilet was not in use at all overnight.

    I have the valve with the adjustment screw, so I guess calling Toto at this point would be the way to go if it is under warranty?
  6. dmwesq

    dmwesq New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    New York
    Any idea how to contact Toto? The numbers listed on their website are not in service - never a good sign. Also, how do I check the incoming water pressure?
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  7. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    15,038
    Location:
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    Remove the supply line,
    Then remove the filter with needle nose pliers.
    If the filter is clogged, it will prevent a proper shutoff.

    A good replacement fill valve can be bought at Lowes, the Korky MaxPerformance.
    However, cleaning the screen filter on the one you have is what I would try first.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  8. dmwesq

    dmwesq New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    New York
    Thanks - will give this a try later tonight.
  9. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

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    Also, if it's making a noise every half hour while sitting, it may be that it isn't the fill valve at all. The valve may be making noise because it is refilling the toilet because water is leaking out of it slowly. This would be caused by a deteriorating flapper (or possibly by a siphon resulting from the refill hose not being "daylighted" above the lip of the overflow riser). One way to check whether the toilet is losing water is to turn off the water supply, mark the level that the tank water is at with a pencil, and check back several hours later. If the water level has dropped, most likely you need to get a new flapper. Get the Korky 3" universal replacement flapper at Lowe's, and you'll be all set.

    If you do need to replace the valve, the right one to use is the Korky MaxPerformance, also known as the 528MPK at Lowe's (and the 528MP everywhere else). Replacement takes at most 5 minutes, and no big tools required.
  10. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

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    Huh. 1-888-295-8134 is their customer service number. Works fine for me.

    Are you sure you are dialing the prefix "888", which is correct, rather than "800", which is not?
  11. dmwesq

    dmwesq New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    New York
    Will check all these methods as soon as I can. Perhaps their phones were down for a while - I dialed both their regular and 888 number correctly several times with not in service message - ended up getting through to one of their regional centers who gave me a direct email address - which so far has not responded either.

    Seems odd to me that the flapper would "deteriorate" after less than 8 months, especially since I have been in this house about 13 years and have not experienced similar issues - but I suppose anything is possible.
  12. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    15,038
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    I've seen that on all the brands.
    That's one reason I like to see parts on the common hardware shelves.
    Chlorine is always a big no no, but sometimes I wonder if they are putting more in the water supply too.
  13. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,351
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    To check water pressure, you need a pressure gauge available at any hardware store for around $10-$15.
  14. dmwesq

    dmwesq New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    New York
    Finally got around to addressing this problem. The tank was definitely leaking - the water was way down today inside the tank. I took out the screen - it looks pretty clean to me. I also don't see much of a problem with the flapper, but obviously it isn't keeping water in the tank. I also have noted on the photo where the leak appears to be on the flush valve. Have not tested the water pressure yet - want to try to solve these other issues first. Since Toto did not respond at all, I will probably try them as well as contacting the plumbing supply where I got the toilet from on Monday.

    IMAG0064.jpg IMG_2198.JPG IMG_2199 copy.jpg IMG_2200.JPG IMG_2201.JPG
  15. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

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    Just finding the water being down, indicating a slow leak from the tank, is probably your only real problem. It could be more than just the flapper, but it's 95% likely that it's the flapper. So...if you're in Manhattan just go to Rainbow on 1st Ave on the west side between 75th and 76th (it's a fun hardware/everything store), which has an excellent selection of Korky flappers. They should have the Korky 3060BP large 3" adjustable flapper, which is a quick and easy replacement (or you can get it from that big online store that also sells the Kindle). The 2021BP "Fits Toto" GMax flapper will also work, but the latter will stay open a little longer than optimal, eliminating some of the water savings, making it more like a 1.8gpf toilet (more water in flush, longer refill and some refill water wasted down the drain). Korky doesn't list the setting for the Drake II in its current instructions on the adjustable 3" flapper, but you can call them (they're really nice) and they'll tell you, or you can use the method of marking the water level when the old flapper closes and adjusting the white band so that it mimics that. Or you can wing it because at the end of the day it doesn't make *that* much difference. (There are other places in Manhattan than Rainbow to find Korky products, but that one is in my neighborhood and has a zillion Korky products. If you are outside of the City, I would just get the 3060PK at the nearest Lowe's. Lowe's uses variations on the Korky model number on its web site, so it's 3060PK at Lowe's and 3060BP everywhere else.)

    Or call Toto and tell them to send you a new flapper because it quit way too soon. That will take about a week to arrive.

    As to the water dripping from the fill valve, I wouldn't sweat it. On many anti-siphon fill valves, there is always a little water running from the valve head. It goes into the tank anyway, so it's not an issue. If you look at the instructions for the Korky replacement valve, they make an explicit point that water is expected to flow from multiple places on the valve, including about the same place that you're pointing to on the Voreto. (Korky is the original valve on a lot of Toto toilets, but not yours; you have the Voreto fill valve, which is interchangeable with the Korky 528MP or the Toto TSU99A.X Universal Replacement Fill Valve, which is made by Korky in Wisconsin.)

    I'm guessing that the chattering that you are hearing is the fill valve opening a little to replace water that has escaped the tank by dripping past the flapper, and then shutting off. When you eliminate the leak from the flush valve and flapper, you won't need to worry about the fill valve.

    Finally, I would rinse off that screen; it appears to have a little schmutz on the top part of the photo, if I'm viewing correctly.

    Let us know how it turns out.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2012
  16. dmwesq

    dmwesq New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    New York
    Thanks for the info. Rather than take any chances, I replaced the fill valve and the flapper with Korky products mentioned in this thread. Seems to be working - will monitor for a day or so, but hopefully problem is taken care of. While it might have been the flapper alone, for another $10 I felt more comfortable replacing both parts.
  17. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

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    Location:
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    Absolutely fine. I took the Voreto valve out of one of my Drakes the first time it acted up and replaced with the Korky. The Korky is quieter; not a big deal but I like it better. For the money, no reason to overthink whether to replace it.
  18. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,051
    Location:
    New England
    WHile not too common, sometimes the flapper seat is not tight enough to the tank, and it can leak around that seal. If the new flapper doesn't resolve it, tighten the flapper seat a little.
  19. dmwesq

    dmwesq New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    New York
    Well, this toilet is still causing problems, and finally got around to have some time to play with it today. Ended up having a plumber friend come over as well. Still seems the problem is from either the flapper - which now has the Korky 3060 in there, or the flapper seat, which I tightened down per the suggestion here. I notice there is a bit of play with the flapper, and if I put light pressure with my finger on the flapper during the refill the tank fills up. Without the pressure the tank will not refill. And once filled up, it will lose water slowly and then you occasionally here it refill. My friend said I should stick with the Toto flapper for this toilet, which at this point I may try again. My only other thought is perhaps some defect in the flapper seat preventing a good seal with the flapper? I am going to try Toto again and see what there thoughts are on this. The toilet and its parts are just too new to keep having these issues, when no other toilet in the house does, and both of my other toilets are Toto's as well.
  20. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,865
    Location:
    New York, NY
    The Korky flapper is the Toto flapper. They make them. Most of them, at least. There was an engineer on one site who compared the tool marks on the Toto GMax flapper with the Korky Fits Toto Gmax flapper, and said they were not just made from a similar mold, they were made on the same machine (in Wisconsin), and since the Korky "Fits Toto" product says Toto on it...you get the drift. It's the same thing. The adjustable flapper is obviously different, but there isn't going to be a difference in quality or specs on the OEM product vs the Korky product. The problem is somewhere else.

    Maybe brillo the flush valve seat.

    Maybe look at how the chain is pulling the flapper up. Sometimes, we see people say that the flapper gets pulled up off angle, slides to one side of the posts on which its "wings" attach to the overflow riser, and then doesn't seat straight down. Sometimes, bending the trip arm so there's a straight pull-up motion allows the flapper to sit back cleanly in the valve. Also, because the Supreme is a lowboy, you might not have as much water in the shorter tank to press down on the flapper, making it more important that it drop back down cleanly.

    These are some random thoughts. I would definitely contact Toto, and get them to send you a flapper under warranty and give you any other tricks to get back in business. We're a pretty good repository here, but I have seen where they come up with a solution and it works. Just try the 888 number on their web site. I have never had a problem getting an answer within a couple of rings, and friendly technician on the phone shortly thereafter.

    You might also just get them to send you a new flush valve/overflow riser, and if none of this works, install that and see if the flapper doesn't seat better. They're very liberal about sending out parts to make customers happy.

    Let us know how it goes.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2013
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